The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 19, 2020, 08:31 AM   #26
USNRet93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanuk View Post
If you can carry a .380 you can carry a J frame 357 mag. Aside from fantasy, you are not fighting back to anything. The fight will be won or lost with what you have on you at the time of the fight.
VERY true 'carry it', but to be any good with that, ya gotta shoot it and often. Not only to get better with it but also to make sure it's reliable. Like it or don't, 'some' of us CAN'T regularly shoot something like a 357 snubbie..I've had a S&W 642 and shot my son's S&W 686, with 357..and that hurts this old fart with a gimpy RH wrist and thumb, to the point of not really having a 'functional right hand the next day...
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer

"Tools not Trophies”
USNRet93 is offline  
Old January 19, 2020, 09:32 AM   #27
giggitygiggity
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2018
Posts: 11
I use Remington Golden Sabers in my LCPs.
giggitygiggity is offline  
Old January 19, 2020, 09:59 AM   #28
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,841
Quote:
VERY true 'carry it', but to be any good with that, ya gotta shoot it and often. Not only to get better with it but also to make sure it's reliable. Like it or don't, 'some' of us CAN'T regularly shoot something like a 357 snubbie..I've had a S&W 642 and shot my son's S&W 686, with 357..and that hurts this old fart with a gimpy RH wrist and thumb, to the point of not really having a 'functional right hand the next day...
Sorry to hear that. I have been a competitive shooter since I was a kid. For the first 20 years in LE all I ever shot was 357 magnum. So for me a new gun just requires familiarization.

Fun fact: most of not all .380 pistols are blowback. They recoil quite a bit as well.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old January 19, 2020, 10:04 AM   #29
eastbank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2008
Location: pa.
Posts: 2,194
on hot days I carry a second edition ruger lcp in .380 in my front pocket holster with out any printing, try that with a 36-60 S&W. on days I wear more cloths I carry a glock-1911.
eastbank is offline  
Old January 19, 2020, 12:45 PM   #30
mk70ss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2008
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,160
I go back and forth between carrying a Charter Bulldog Classic .44 and my Browning BDA .380. Both get loaded with premium ammo. With 14 rounds of good ammo in the Browning, and my ability to shoot it pretty well, I am fairly well armed in my humble opinion. Have been looking for the new Federal .380 HydaShok Deep rounds, but can’t find any yet.
__________________
Say when.....
mk70ss is offline  
Old January 20, 2020, 03:09 PM   #31
ratshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,566
Quote:
Fun fact: most of not all .380 pistols are blowback. They recoil quite a bit as well.
Yes they do. A surprising amount for such a small round. My bud has one of the FEG PA-63 pistols in 9x18, a round slightly more powerful than a 380 and its a beast to shoot with its fixed barrel. About two mags from it and I'm done. The funny thing is is that I had a Makorav in 9x18 and I don't remember it being too bad to shoot.

I had a Davis/Lorcin 380 and it was pretty brutal to shoot and the slide would cut the top of my shooting hand. It got sold pretty quick. A Titan 380 the one with the open top slide like a Beretta was a kitty cat to shoot. And it was a fixed barreled gun.

I think gun design has a lot to do with it. My tiny 10oz Taurus TCP is a tilting barrel lock up and while it recoils some that PA-63 has it beat all to heck for recoil.
__________________
"Those who cannot cleanly dispatch their game using a .30-30 are either shooting too far, hunting inappropriate (too large) game, or are simply incompetent." Mic McPherson

I can understand your anger at me, but what could you possibly have against the horse I rode in on?
ratshooter is offline  
Old January 20, 2020, 03:30 PM   #32
TBM900
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2015
Posts: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanuk View Post
Fun fact: most of not all .380 pistols are blowback. They recoil quite a bit as well.
The 380EZ produces very little recoil.
I would estimate the felt recoil difference between a 22lr and 22wmr in a revolver...
Is of similar scale to the felt difference between a 22wmr revolver and the 380EZ.
__________________
Queen of England
Retired Colonial Marine
14th Earl to walk on the moon
TBM900 is offline  
Old January 20, 2020, 03:40 PM   #33
osbornk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2012
Location: Mountains of Appalachia
Posts: 1,540
Quote:
Fun fact: most of not all .380 pistols are blowback. They recoil quite a bit as well.
Many if not most are not blowback. They are locked breech designs but sometimes referred to as delayed blowback. I have two and they both operate and have the same parts as my much larger 9mm pistols (S&W, Taurus and SCCY). Their recoil is because they are in little bitty lightweight guns. Both of my 380s (Spectrum and TCP) weight 10 ounces or a little more. My 9mm SCCY weighs 15 ounces and it has a lot of recoil because of the light weight. It has more recoil than either of my 380s.
osbornk is offline  
Old January 20, 2020, 06:03 PM   #34
ratshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,566
Quote:
My 9mm SCCY weighs 15 ounces and it has a lot of recoil because of the light weight. It has more recoil than either of my 380s.
Weight makes a great deal of difference. A friend got his CC license and wanted one of the lightweight Taurus model 85 revolvers in 38 special. He had a stainless steel model 85 and I bought it from him so he had money to go toward the 38 lightweight.

After he got the new gun we went shooting. I took the new to me stainless model and he shot his lightweight. I provided the ammo. You should have seen the look on his face when he shot some of my hot 38s in that lightweight gun. Shooting those two guns side by gave a clear idea of how too light of a gun can be a bad thing. He sold that new gun not to long after that.
__________________
"Those who cannot cleanly dispatch their game using a .30-30 are either shooting too far, hunting inappropriate (too large) game, or are simply incompetent." Mic McPherson

I can understand your anger at me, but what could you possibly have against the horse I rode in on?
ratshooter is offline  
Old January 20, 2020, 06:42 PM   #35
IdaD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2018
Location: Idaho
Posts: 107
Looks like an interesting option. I usually carry more than a 380 but I do have a 380 for when a pocket option is the only option, or if I’m being lazy. I carry XTP’s in mine and I think it’s a good load. I’ll consider these in the future if they pan out, although the results quoted in the link are about equal to most of the tests I’ve seen on the XTP loads.
IdaD is offline  
Old January 21, 2020, 10:30 AM   #36
USNRet93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanuk View Post
Sorry to hear that. I have been a competitive shooter since I was a kid. For the first 20 years in LE all I ever shot was 357 magnum. So for me a new gun just requires familiarization.

Fun fact: most if not all .380 pistols are blowback. They recoil quite a bit as well.
My G42 is not blowback..the LCP I had wasn't either(pretty sure)..BUT yup, a blowback 380 can sting. The Glock 25 and 28, not sold in US, G19 and G26 size but .380 and blowback..cuz if NOT BB, no cycle. Pretty sure the G44(22LR) is blowback.

My G42 very gentle..GREAT gun. When clothes says I can't carry my G26(with 19r G19 magazine), I carry the G42..with a +1 or +2 magazine.

Shot yesterday with sons..I have a Beretta/Uberti 38/357..other son a S&W 686..fun to alternate 38 and 357 in each.

38-nice, 357-ouch..for ME..

I'm a big fan of shooting what I own a LOT..so it's gotta be FTS*

*Fun TO Shoot
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer

"Tools not Trophies”

Last edited by USNRet93; January 21, 2020 at 10:39 AM.
USNRet93 is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 03:31 PM   #37
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,841
Quote:
My 9mm SCCY weighs 15 ounces and it has a lot of recoil because of the light weight. It has more recoil than either of my 380s
Logical.

Quote:
Many if not most are not blowback.
You mention 2 made by Taurus. 2 is not many, or most.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 03:34 PM   #38
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,841
Quote:
Shot yesterday with sons..I have a Beretta/Uberti 38/357..other son a S&W 686..fun to alternate 38 and 357 in each.

38-nice, 357-ouch..for ME..

I'm a big fan of shooting what I own a LOT..so it's gotta be FTS*

*Fun TO Shoot
Like the man said; " A man has got to know his limitations".

For me @ 58 and decades of shooting magnums a 44 magnum snubby is still fun to shoot, but a 6lb 30-06 is not.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 03:41 PM   #39
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,183
SIG P238, Kimber Micro, Star DK, Star S series, Keltec P3AT, Ruger LCP are ALL locked breech guns. I'm pretty sure the latest Berettas are too.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 04:10 PM   #40
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,841
Quote:
SIG P238, Kimber Micro, Star DK, Star S series, Keltec P3AT, Ruger LCP are ALL locked breech guns. I'm pretty sure the latest Berettas are too.
Fair enough.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 05:37 PM   #41
Road_Clam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs
SIG P238, Kimber Micro, Star DK, Star S series, Keltec P3AT, Ruger LCP are ALL locked breech guns. I'm pretty sure the latest Berettas are too.
I / we ( meaning my wife) own both of these. Both alloy / steel framed so some extra weight, but the advantage trade-off is they are VERY compliant felt recoil shooters.
__________________
"To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"
Road_Clam is offline  
Old January 23, 2020, 03:41 AM   #42
Old Stony
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2013
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,651
I've been carrying an S&W EZE .380 a lot lately and it's a hoot to shoot. Holding it on target and emptying the mag is a breeze as it's light recoil and handles great. I only practice with it doing rapid fire and it seems like it's built for it.
Old Stony is offline  
Old January 24, 2020, 02:56 AM   #43
Cosmodragoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2013
Location: Northeastern US
Posts: 1,747
Federal's 85-grain Hydra-Shoks in .327 Federal are my daily carry ammo. They represent the best balance of performance and recoil on the LCR. Now, I've only tested them on fruit, water jugs, old canned goods, phone books, wood, etc. It's enough to know that I prefer them over .38 special or .380 acp.

The issue with .380 isn't that it's weak or useless. It's actually not bad given how easy it is to carry some of the little guns that use it. The issue is that it's down near the margin. It's in a place where penetration versus expansion can be a serious question. It takes a lot of work to get it right and inspire confidence. (For example, this thread exists.) For some people, it just feels like a safer bet to use 9mm. In my case, I'm using the same weight projectile but with a little better sectional density and a few hundred more fps.

Whatever the case, I look forward to seeing these tested. I'd especially like to get a box over to Paul Harrell. =D
Cosmodragoon is offline  
Old January 24, 2020, 08:23 AM   #44
USNRet93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon View Post
Federal's 85-grain Hydra-Shoks in .327 Federal are my daily carry ammo. They represent the best balance of performance and recoil on the LCR. Now, I've only tested them on fruit, water jugs, old canned goods, phone books, wood, etc. It's enough to know that I prefer them over .38 special or .380 acp.

The issue with .380 isn't that it's weak or useless. It's actually not bad given how easy it is to carry some of the little guns that use it. The issue is that it's down near the margin. It's in a place where penetration versus expansion can be a serious question. It takes a lot of work to get it right and inspire confidence. (For example, this thread exists.) For some people, it just feels like a safer bet to use 9mm. In my case, I'm using the same weight projectile but with a little better sectional density and a few hundred more fps.

Whatever the case, I look forward to seeing these tested. I'd especially like to get a box over to Paul Harrell. =D
Funny..I sent Paul a box of Lehigh/Underwood Xtreme Defender .380 and asked for a 'meat target' test vs JHP and maybe 9mm JHP thru a lot of cloth..that 'box' of 20 cost $26, btw, plus shipping..
That was 2 years ago..I sent him an email, one was answered(busy, I'll get to it) the other..not..I still like his videos but canceled my patreron subscription to him..

BTW-I did a VERY unscientific test on my own..some pork ribs on a watermelon wrapped with about 10 layers of jeans..shot Lehigh Xtreme Defender .380 from about 5 YARDS and it made quite a nice mess of the watermelon..split the front, BIG hole in back. Tried another with 9mm JHP..didn't find the round but small hole going in, small hole coming out. It 'appeared' like it didn't open at all(clogged?).

YMMV and all that..
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer

"Tools not Trophies”

Last edited by USNRet93; January 25, 2020 at 08:20 AM.
USNRet93 is offline  
Old January 24, 2020, 08:41 AM   #45
Carmady
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2013
Location: on the lam
Posts: 1,399
Quote:
shot Lehigh Xtreme Defender .380 from about 5 years and it made quite a nice mess of the watermelon
Years or yards?
Carmady is offline  
Old January 24, 2020, 11:16 AM   #46
gnystrom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2006
Posts: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleA View Post
Please everyone take this message to heart and go out and try some of this ammunition. Why?

1. Federal is in my neck of the woods and I root for them like I root for the Vikings...mindless optimism.
2. I remember way back when (maybe last 25 years or so) Federal Folk got upset that all the US shooters were using European ammunition so they came up with a VERY accurate .22 round, convinced some US shooters to use it, and we won a couple of Olympic medals.
3. Federal has GOT to show a profit or they may not pay off on the really good rebate they had in December 2019 and I haven't got my rebate yet.

Please give this post all the attention it deserves.
Also living in the Twin Cities I agree with your comments. Federal ammo has always been a solid reliable product and keeping them running is very important. I just left my LGS in Eden Prairie with a 825rd pack of Federal HP's for $30.
BTW, If you live in the southern Twin Cities, stop by our range on Wed. Nite or Sat morning.
https://policeandfire.training/public-programs/
gnystrom is offline  
Old January 24, 2020, 11:21 AM   #47
gnystrom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2006
Posts: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleA View Post
Please everyone take this message to heart and go out and try some of this ammunition. Why?

1. Federal is in my neck of the woods and I root for them like I root for the Vikings...mindless optimism.
2. I remember way back when (maybe last 25 years or so) Federal Folk got upset that all the US shooters were using European ammunition so they came up with a VERY accurate .22 round, convinced some US shooters to use it, and we won a couple of Olympic medals.
3. Federal has GOT to show a profit or they may not pay off on the really good rebate they had in December 2019 and I haven't got my rebate yet.

Please give this post all the attention it deserves.
A half dozen years ago we had a gel test of a number of calibers put on by Federal (ATK) at that time. Even back then it was clear .3809 could do the job. This new Federal offering should be a winner.
Also living in the Twin Cities I agree with your comments. Federal ammo has always been a solid reliable product and keeping them running is very important. I just left my LGS in Eden Prairie with a 825rd pack of Federal HP's for $30.
BTW, If you live in the southern Twin Cities, stop by our range on Wed. Nite or Sat morning.
https://policeandfire.training/public-programs/
gnystrom is offline  
Old January 24, 2020, 01:03 PM   #48
Cosmodragoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2013
Location: Northeastern US
Posts: 1,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRet93 View Post
Funny..I sent Paul a box of Lehigh/Underwood Xtreme Defender .380 and asked for a 'meat target' test vs JHP and maybe 9mm JHP thru a lot of cloth..that 'box' of 20 cost $26, btw, plus shipping..
That was 2 years ago..I sent him an email, one was answered(busy, I'll get to it) the other..not..I still like his videos but canceled my patreron subscription to him..

BTW-I did a VERY unscientific test on my own..some pork ribs on a watermelon wrapped with about 10 layers of jeans..shot Lehigh Xtreme Defender .380 from about 5 years and it made quite a nice mess of the watermelon..split the front, BIG hole in back. Tried another with 9mm JHP..didn't find the round but small hole going in, small hole coming out. It 'appeared' like it didn't open at all(clogged?).

YMMV and all that..
Sorry to hear that Paul was busy. He has tested their Xtreme Penetrator in .380 and their Defender in 9mm.

Despite the silly name, I really like the concept of Lehigh's Penetrator solids. While it doesn't "penetrate" any more deeply than FMJ, it does seem to tear up up the wound channel nicely. If I was going to carry .380 or .38 special defensively, they'd be an easy choice based on the test results I've seen.
Cosmodragoon is offline  
Old January 25, 2020, 12:25 AM   #49
wild cat mccane
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 1,558
Federal doesn't need help

Federal is owned by Vista Outdoors. Vista was a spin sister company of ATK. ATK owned CCI/Speer and about 95% of all other brands except for Freedom/Winchester and Hornady). Vista Outdoors brought CCI/Speer and Federal into the same company. Oh by the way, ATK was already owned by Northrop Grumman.

Vista is also owned by Northrop Grumman.

Northrop operates the Govt owned Lake City plant that provides every round of ammunition to the US government.

No.

Federal doesn't need your support one bit. Northrop Grumman owns Vista and owns almost every box you can randomly select online or in a store.

Last edited by wild cat mccane; January 25, 2020 at 09:08 PM.
wild cat mccane is offline  
Old January 25, 2020, 10:43 AM   #50
pgdion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2010
Location: MPLS, MN
Posts: 1,196
Nice post. Nothing wrong with carrying .380. Is 9mm better, yea, of course it is. But is .380 good enough in most scenarios, yes. I'd rather carry a decent .380 that shoots well than an ultra small 9 that doesn't. And sometimes the 9 just doesn't conceal as well as I'd like or sometimes it's just to heavy for what I'm doing that day.
As far as Federal Hydra-shock, I like it. I use it in both the 9mm and the .40sw so I'll have to pick some of this up.
__________________
597 VTR, because there's so many cans and so little time!
pgdion is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09238 seconds with 10 queries