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October 5, 2017, 02:26 PM | #76 | |
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How about one fewer death? You think that person and their family and loved one would not be grateful? How about 10 few, or 20, or 30? How about no copy cat? Bumps stocks allowed this carnage and high death rate.
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October 5, 2017, 02:27 PM | #77 | |
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A semi auto is more accurate, more controllable and fires a known number of shots if you put your finger on the trigger and pull: one. A bump-fire stock does none of those things... So, for me one can't apply the arguments against a bump-fire stock to a regular semi-auto. And I get the arguments made earlier about appeasement, but Chamberlain tried to appease Hitler: a homicidal megalomaniac. That was never going to work because Hitler was the one and only power in Germany at that time. In the US, the power is still (thankfully) with the people. Most of them may not want outright bans on semis but I bet many will find the existence of slide-fire stocks difficult to justify in RKBA terms for the average member of the public, given that FA's are ATF controlled, and tightly at that. Particularly as they are basically just for messing around. There are no comps that I know of that use these stocks, anyone that used one in an SD/HD situation would have the book thrown at them etc. It is that public that will vote for senators and congressmen/women in the future and you run the risk of them turning against the fire-arms owning community if Congress were to look at this outrage against humanity and not "do anything". The fact is it will probably happen again and frankly I'm surprised it hadn't happened sooner. Sadly, often there is nothing that can be done because a person on the brink of insanity, who wants to hurt will find a way. As I said earlier, Nice and Berlin showed that, but the voting public still always think that something can be done. That a risk free existence is just a question of law-making, when really it is an unachievable goal....
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Last edited by Pond, James Pond; October 5, 2017 at 02:36 PM. |
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October 5, 2017, 02:28 PM | #78 | |
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Talk is cheap.
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October 5, 2017, 02:30 PM | #79 |
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Wow.. Ok Im gonna let someone else give your post the attention it deserves.
But let me just ask you one question would you be in favor of applying all current gun laws to civilian government agencies.. IE: civil law enforcement like swat squads would have to buy off the 86 MG registry or just go without their m4's and mp5's? |
October 5, 2017, 02:30 PM | #80 | |||
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A semi auto is designed to deliver fire fast and if you train, accurately. I agree bump stock has a mass fire intent. Quote:
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Republicans have been busy dividing us to make it worse. As Dick Gregory once said, the only good thing about the good old days as far as we are concerned is they are gone.
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Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not Last edited by Evan Thomas; October 6, 2017 at 03:50 PM. Reason: removed invective. |
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October 5, 2017, 02:36 PM | #81 | |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_ri...wiki/M16_rifle So you're telling me a registered transferable full auto ar15 running at least 700rpm is LESS deadly then a ar15 with a bump stock running at 600rpm? I think your math skills might be a bit rusty.. |
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October 5, 2017, 02:38 PM | #82 | |
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He did not have an FA He had 13 (apparently ) bump stocks. If he could not get a bump stock or it was homemade and did not work the death toll would have been lower. People keep their FA well locked up.
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October 5, 2017, 02:42 PM | #83 |
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And you missed MY point, If not the bump stock he could have just bought the real thing.. transferable full auto's..
He had a clean background and millions of dollars. If you're gonna quote me respond to what I say and not the thoughts racing in your head. |
October 5, 2017, 02:43 PM | #84 | ||
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You should read Al Franken book "Lion of the Senate" to understand it (he expose a lot of reptilian lies in the process, though the Demos have their own lies) By definition of the 2nd Amendmentors , police the the goberment having all those auto weapons is why we need to have them to defend ourselves against the goberment. Quote:
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October 5, 2017, 02:50 PM | #85 | |
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And according to the news, the NRA is open to regulating bump-fire devices...
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I concur that he could have been more effective with a semi-auto and aimed fire over that period of time than he was with bump-fire.
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October 5, 2017, 02:50 PM | #86 | |||||
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univer...tower_shooting 19 dead. Expert shooter. Note the many fewer dead? Perfect no, better yes. Kenedy: Former Marine. Quote:
13 Slide Fir stocks in the room? Non wealthy copy cats. Don't' change the subject off the subject. Quote:
If it can be used for evil purposes it will be. Got your anti virus up to date? Quote:
No single answer, but slow things down, make it harder, maybe detect it before it goes lethal . Quote:
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October 5, 2017, 02:59 PM | #87 | ||
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Why does the government need those weapons? why are they exempt from all gun regulations? And to be clear im talking about civilian LE not the military. Quote:
I guess we need to get another concert and gunmen with a bolt action so we can test it out.. That's sarcasm for people can't understand no two "mass" shooting are exactly alike. |
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October 5, 2017, 03:00 PM | #88 |
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Someone wrote earlier that a mag fed bolt action with a scope and a shooter that knew how to use that tool would have been able to "kill" double that while injuring maybe a 1/10 the amount injured . Or even a semi auto with a scope which he had . Will we even ever know if the majority of deaths were done with the slide fire stock ? It seems likely but I would like that info before casting my vote .
So is it really the bump/slide stock that allowed this to happen at the scale it did ? Injuries , yes . Deaths ,Maybe No As for the actual rate of fire . He never came close to firing at 600rpm . That would have been 6000rds . My bet is he did not shoot more then 1000rds . Yes he had the capability to fire 600rpm but that's not how many he shot .
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October 5, 2017, 03:00 PM | #89 | |
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October 5, 2017, 03:01 PM | #90 |
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NRA goes weak at the knees: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...-shooting.html
“The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations,” - joint statement from Wayne LaPierre and Chris Cox. |
October 5, 2017, 03:02 PM | #91 | |
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13 bump fire guns found, I heard the recordings, having heard full auto I could not tell the damned difference. Mass fire into a packed crowd with no cover and no where to go and you think it was not the bump stock? Copy cats are now working on the same thing. Maybe the only good news is that the supply is sucked up and they can't get them. Joe Six make a big deal between 500 and 700 RPM. Really?
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October 5, 2017, 03:06 PM | #92 |
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No sorry , Did not mean it to sound like that , I know it was a bump stock . My point was with a different tool ( maybe better tool ) the death count could have been double .
In the future it will happen again this time with a bolt gun and the deaths will be higher . Then what do we ban ?
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
October 5, 2017, 03:07 PM | #93 | |||
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Or have you not read the background on government power, who enforced it and the relevancy of the felt need back then? And LE is supposed to face Slide Fire Stocks with single shots? At least the police tend to kill people one at a time, not in large clusters. Quote:
Point is it was Slide Fire and that's point of discussing and I agree they should be banned. I also feel the same way about more than 10 rounds in a semi auto. And yes I do have a semi auto and it has a 10 round clip despite larger being available Quote:
If may be the best we can do, but slow it down, reduce the impact are all a help to a better outcome' If we could have reduced the massacre by 5 deaths it would have been 5 more living and how many hundred of family and friends not impacted?
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October 5, 2017, 03:15 PM | #94 | |
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Any of these can and have been used to murder. People were killed before airplanes and pressure cookers too. The families of those people surely mourned too, but that isn't a reasoned basis for prohibition of those devices.
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October 5, 2017, 03:19 PM | #95 | ||
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You created a grace period to turn in. If not. You then will never take it into public and someday you may just destroy it to get it off your mind. I recently modified a gun. I made damned sure that it met the specs to do so as there are regs involved in that. Maybe 1 in a 1000 agent might recognize it, but if I am going to have it in public its going to be legal. Quote:
Once again a pivot. I never said you could stop it. You can stop this type and you can make it harder.
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October 5, 2017, 03:20 PM | #96 | ||
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Before anyone starts talking F22's and Abram tanks . May I remind you of the Posse Comitatus Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act Which forbids the use of the military to police the citizens Quote:
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
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October 5, 2017, 03:29 PM | #97 | |
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October 5, 2017, 03:33 PM | #98 |
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As an FFL I never supported their legality.
Under the strict definition, they are not a MG. FUNCTIONALLY, in trained hands their function is identical- sending rounds faster than anyone could manually operate a trigger mechanism. If you want to own one, tax stamp same as a MG. They will no doubt be banned in the absence of one (and likely a together)- and my bet is retroactively. If the BATFE rules they are illegal to possess, all of the people rushing out to buy them at obscene prices are paying a lot for a piece of plastic they may have to destroy.
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October 5, 2017, 03:38 PM | #99 | ||
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Otherwise, tax stamp or they should be illegal. No different than a MG strictly defined. Quote:
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October 5, 2017, 03:40 PM | #100 | |
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I've written about the militia at length in several past threads that I don't intend to fully rehash now. The short version is that the Constitution places the militia under the supervision of Congress and under the command of the President. (Understand that the militia, as discussed here, was an organ of the governments of the individual states. Try not to think about today's politically motivated private militia companies; this muddles the matter.) Leaders in some states believed that this usurped too much of their power. To address this concern when the BoR was written, the prefatory clause of the 2A ("A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State...") was added to make it clear that the federal government's power to oversee the militia did not allow the Feds to DISARM the militia. Keep in mind that this was done in the context of shaking off a powerful and unaccountable monarchy; the fear was that another monarch would arise in Washington and abrogate the Constitution, so the states wanted the ability to fight back. Additionally, several Founding Fathers believed that a standing professional military was dangerous to the country's freedom, and therefore its role should be assumed by the militia. In these respects, the role of the 2A in relation to the militia is arguably obsolete, but fortunately that's not all there is to the 2A. The operative clause of the 2A—the part after the comma ("...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed")—exists independently of the prefatory clause. The SCOTUS said so in D.C. v. Heller. In summary, the 2A defines an individual right AND explains its relationship to militia service, but the existence of the right is NOT conditional upon militia service.
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