Best fighting revolver or pistol what is it? S&w 686+:episode 1

[Mike Irwin]

For me, a 4" Smith & Wesson Model 19.

Simply the best combination of ergonomics, weight, power, etc., ever put into any single revolver.

[zeke]

Am making a distinction that am not worried about concealing a "fighting" revolver. My choice would be a 3 in 625 45 acp. One with higher front/rear sights and rear sight "opened" up. Combined with custom rounds based on 45 AR brass.

One could only guess why.

In lieu of that one, a 3 in L frame loaded with 44 specials. Again with the higher front/rear sites and "opened" rear sight.

[Two Shanks]

Some might say the Manurhin MR73 is the best fighting revolver made. GIGN put it to good use during the Air France highjacking.

[shurshot]

"Simply the best combination of ergonomics, weight, power, etc., ever put into any single revolver".(Mike Irwin on the S&W 19)

Pretty hard to argue with that statement. Bill Jordan and S&W were at the top of their game with the K frame model 19.

[Moenie]

Originally Posted by Two Shanks

Some might say the Manurhin MR73 is the best fighting revolver made. GIGN put it to good use during the Air France highjacking.

It’s the only revolver (to my knowledge) designed and manufactured especially for combat. And it’s made to comply with CIP pressure levels, which for .357 mag is around 25% higher than SAAMI levels.

[Nanuk]

It’s the only revolver (to my knowledge) designed and manufactured especially for combat.

Smith and Wesson's and Colt's were designed as fighting revolvers...... Heck a SAA was designed for combat......

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by Moenie

It’s the only revolver (to my knowledge) designed and manufactured especially for combat. And it’s made to comply with CIP pressure levels, which for .357 mag is around 25% higher than SAAMI levels.

I think you mean the only one marketed as a combat revolver. I believe the S&W Combat Masterpiece predates it by a few decades, also marketing.

[rep1954]

“If I knew I was going to be in a gunfight, I want my Wilson Beretta in my hand.”

If I knew I was going to be in a gunfight I just wouldn’t go there.

[Moenie]

Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy

I think you mean the only one marketed as a combat revolver. I believe the S&W Combat Masterpiece predates it by a few decades, also marketing.

The MR73 was specially developed to specification for the French GIGN to be used in anti terrorist operations. The MR73 is a 100% true combat revolver, nothing to do with marketing.

Ironically the MR73 was developed as a result of S&Ws (model 19s I believe) not being able to withstand the prolonged use of full power .357 the CIGN used in their daily practice.

[Moenie]

Originally Posted by Nanuk

Smith and Wesson's and Colt's were designed as fighting revolvers...... Heck a SAA was designed for combat......

Colt SAAs and S&W Schofields possibly.

K, L and J frames most certainly not. The US military have not issued a requirement for a combat revolver in a very long time.

[shurshot]

Moenie,

You are aware that the US Military has used revolvers in WW1, WW2, Cold war era, etc.? Both Colt and S&W produced numerous models and sizes as specified / required for various branches... designed for... COMBAT. Not just Colt SAA's and Schofields in the old West, but many models and frame sizes of double actions, .45's, .41's and .38 Special's from Teddy Roosevelt's era foward.

If you don't believe us, research it and or go visit some Military Museum's, The SEAL Museum in Florida, etc. and you will see S&W K frame model 10's, 15's, Colt New Services, Colt .38 Double Actions, Colt Model of 1909 .45. ...Model of 1917 Revolvers—Colt and Smith & Wesson .45 ACP., S&W “Victory Model” ...Colt “Commando” , USAF M13 “Aircrewman” , Ruger “Service Six” Military Revolvers.

[jetinteriorguy]

Delete.

[hammer_jockey_91]

my personal opinion, the best revolver is the one that takes advantage of powerful magnum rounds, while still remains a competitor to the speed of reloading.
i carry revolvers. back ups, primarys, shtf, woods, i carry revolvers most of the time. and ive done ALOT of research on which revolver is the best all around revolver. and what ive come up with, is the ruger 45acp/45colt.
why?
a 45 colt ruger that is cut for moon clips can handle 45 magnums.
so you have, powerful 45 magnum rounds, reloads as quick as a semi automatic, the option to use 45acp, or 45 colt, 4' barrel so its the perfect medium between small enough to carry big enough to fight with, perfect grip shape for concealment, after market support isnt too bad, ruger does some kind of black magic in their custom shop and now my redhawks trigger is better than most glock triggers, i mean honestly i can go on and on.

but look into it yourself. im sure you will agree

[Alan0354]

For home defense where I don't have to carry and size is not important, I would use semi auto. My 9mm S&W659 have 14 rounds. Big semi auto are usually very reliable not like the small ones.

I used to think semi auto is the way to go carrying out, but I now find the Ruger LCR that is only 13.5oz and +P, small semis don't do any better, small and light semis are known to be unreliable. So I am swaying towards the Ruger.

Also, in close quarter fight with someone, if you stick the gun to the body of the person, semi auto will not work because you push the slide back, but a revolver will work.

[Moenie]

Originally Posted by shurshot

Moenie,

You are aware that the US Military has used revolvers in WW1, WW2, Cold war era, etc.? Both Colt and S&W produced numerous models and sizes as specified / required for various branches... designed for... COMBAT.

The military did use many guns you mention, but they were not built to specification for the military. Ergo, they were not designed for combat. They were designed for a wide variety of uses and military just happened to be one.

M16s were designed for combat and was built to meet standards drawn up by the military. N, L, K and J frames were not designed to meet requirements drawn up by the military. Arguably the last US manufactured combat revolvers are the 1917s from both S&W and Colt.

Other than a few prototypes that never quite saw the light of day, Manurhin is the only company that has produced a combat revolver in more than 100 years; and they produced the MR73 around 50 years ago.

[shurshot]

"Colt SAAs and S&W Schofields possibly". Post #35.(Moenie)

"Arguably the last US manufactured combat revolvers are the 1917s from both S&W and Colt."(Moenie) Post #40

So which is it?  

"The military did use many guns you mention, but they were NOT built to specification for the military."(Moenie)

I wasn't aware the Military didn't have specifications on purchase orders / contracts for weapons (like the Colt Commando .38 revolver during WW2), ammunition, tools, vehicles, gear, etc. I thought everything was specifically outlined in the contracts Moenie??

Once again We learn something new on this forum.

PS; I mentioned the Colt Commando .38 Special that was built to military specs in WW2... let's not forget the S&W K frame .38 "Victory", built specifically (with a Military requested finish, improved hammer block safety and lanyard ring), for the Military during WW2.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...model-revolver

[shurshot]

"Other than a few prototypes that never quite saw the light of day, Manurhin is the only company that has produced a combat revolver in more than 100 years;."(Moenie).

That, is baloney.
I realize you are new on the FL, but you should research more prior to posting statements like that.

[Doc TH]

I am generally in agreement with SHURSHOT on this issue. Check out Canfield's book on U.S. military weapons of WWII. The 1911 was generally preferred over the Colt and S&W 1917 model revolvers, but both were ordered w. MilSpec criteria and both were used in combat - not just in training or for security guards. The Navy and USMC ordered S&W "Victory Model" M&P revolvers (with their own spec's, not just civilian guns - they even added contracts for improved hammer blocks). These were issued to aircrew in part because they were easier to carry in confined spaces in aircraft. They were also popular in the Pacific as "foxhole guns" at night; several striking real world experiences are reported by Canfield. The Seals have used stainless steel 357 mag revolvers from time to time. The Manhurin revolvers clearly have to be considered as designed for combat.

[jetinteriorguy]

For me the best revolver for ‘combat’ would have been my S&W model 627, unfortunately it’s RIP due to an accidental double charge of Titegroup. 8 rounds of 158gr XTP’s over 2400 with a couple moon clips loaded ready to go worked quite well. I’d sure like to find another one, really miss that pistol. That’s right , I called it a pistol.

[Mannlicher]

this old Model 65 would be my choice for a fighting revolver. It was rebuilt by the S&W custom shop. DAO, three inch heavy barrel, chamfered cylinders. It is quite a shooter.

[chaim]

You see these questions all the time.

What is the best revolver?

What is the best pistol or semi-auto?

What is the best fighting handgun?

There are 4 immediate thoughts that come to mind when I see these questions. The best is, what you have on you in a time of need, The one you train most with, The One you are most likely to carry and last but not least the one you shoot best

I like your test, but I don't see concealability or carryability as one of your tested criteria (though it is suggested in one of your questions, "The best is, what you have on you in a time of need")... Unless you are a soldier going into a combat zone or a uniformed police officer, or unless you are talking only about home defense (in which case I'd rather have a carbine when possible), those are important added criteria (IMO of course). Heck, even if you are a cop or soldier, weight and how well it carries is still going to be somewhat important (though on a duty belt it may be less important than with a concealment holster).

So, if I somehow knew I was going to be attacked today, or if concealment wasn't an issue (but I also couldn't have a rifle or shotgun), I might prefer a 4" or greater K-frame or L-frame .357mag or N-frame .45LC if I knew I'd only face one attacker. I'd go to a full sized pistol, or at least compact service pistol, in 9mm or .40S&W (like my CZ 75Compact, CZ PCR, CZ P01 or SIG P229) if there may be multiple attackers. However, in the real world, if I am a person with a CCW permit (and also for plain clothes police), concealment and weight matter.

Overall, I am a believer in carrying the largest (most capable) gun you can carry and conceal that you won't leave home. Until fairly recently (the past year or so) that was a compact service sized pistol in an aluminum alloy (mostly my P01 and PCR), sometimes an N-frame 625 Mountain Gun in .45LC in the winter (with layers of cover garments). After losing over 100LBS, those only work under cover garments (while I used to be able to carry the compact service pistols in a tucked IWB, now it is quite a noticeable amount of bulk on my belt). So, now I'm trying to figure out if a subcompact double stack like my 1st gen S&W M&P40c or a possible Glock 26 would work, or if my single stack P290RS and Kel Tec Pf-9 are needed for tucked IWB (if that's the case, I'll probably pick up one of the newer 10+ round double stack micro-9s, probably the SIG P365 or S&W Shield Plus). When I do a revolver now it is usually my 6 shot Taurus 856UL, but sometimes my new model Colt King Cobra.

[Nanuk]

I hate to break it to some of you but firearm development or arms development has always been pushed by armed conflict. If you trace the evolution of armed combat you would understand this.

Which is why I stated early on in the thread about S&W and Colt revolvers being made for combat. That does not mean they were made to military specifications. Having been on the writing end of specifications, you find a product you want and write the spec to meet the item.

[Doc TH]

Well, yes and no. No question that often the military has "pre-selected" a weapon that they want, and write spec's to fit. One example of a very expensive pre-select was the F-111B that they wanted adopted for the USAF, USN, and USMC. It was never suitable for carrier op's and never used by the Navy or Marines; but McNamara wanted it. I was at the time involved in its evaluation by the Navy. Your dollars at work.
I believe that the 1911pistol was designed to meet preexisting spec's. One can argue that the Colt & S&W model 1917, although a then current product, had never been made to chamber the .45 ACP cartridge, never used half moon clips, and never Parkerized, was re-manufactured to meet new spec's, and so a hybrid. But they were clearly used in combat.

On a different note, the S&W 65 is an excellent "fighting" revolver, and is the SS version of the Model 13, which in the 3 inch barrel configuration was extensively used by the FBI. These are user friendly, accurate, powerful - and desirable.

[Mr.RevolverGuy]

Mannlicher what a beautiful model 65.

I have one sort of similar

[Siggy-06]

Mr.RevolverGuy, is that a slab sided barrel I see on your model 65? Very cool.