.357 load for hog self defense

jwilson48 · January 13, 2015, 10:33 PM

well going hog hunting soon with my bow and plan on spot and stalk hunting. due to the potential for a mad hog wanting to eat me, i'm taking my .357 as backup. just ordered this for bullets from missouri bullet company....

.357 Pugnose - Hi-Tek
.358 Diameter
.357 Magnum
180 Grain WFN Flat-Base
Brinell 18
For Maximum Energy
Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating
Price per box of 500
Price: $49.00

need to know some powder loads for this bullet. all i have right now is blue dot and titegroup for pistol powder. if one of these would work, that would be ideal, but if i have to buy something else i will. i am sure it would be used eventually. thanks in advance

jwilson48 · January 13, 2015, 10:53 PM

i forgot to add...will be shot out of a taurus model 66...6" barrel.

skizzums · January 13, 2015, 10:58 PM

titegroup 5.0-5.5max
stay on the low side for hi-tek lead

I don't have data for blue dot or it's equivalents, someone else may

the 5.5 of titegroup is only pushing 1020fps, so the hi-tek should actually hold up just fine. lil gun gets the best velocity for a 180gr @ 1422 which is screaming. h110, 4227 are good options to get you into the 1200 range

jwilson48 · January 13, 2015, 11:11 PM

really interested in the lil gun. that is crazy fast. why lower velocity with the hi-tek? with the brinell hardness of 18 i figured i could push as hard as i wanted to. am i missing something? this is my first time with this type of bullet, usually use a jhp for most things around here as we don't have anything hard skinned or big boned.

skizzums · January 13, 2015, 11:23 PM

forget what I said about hi-tek. they claim to hold up to over 3000fps, so your not going to get anywhere near half that. just generally speaking, for plated and coated bullets, you want to stay shy of a jacketed max load. but these 180's are going slow enough to handle anything, even just regular lube. I haven't used hi-tek, but if I was doing anything over 1200, I would at least want a gas-check

twobit · January 14, 2015, 11:10 AM

I have hogs around my ranch so I'm always armed with either a .357 or 45colt. Sows with piglets are more apt to charge you than a boar if you surprise them.
I have yet to shoot any hogs with any of my hand loads, but the last hog I shot was with a .357. It was about a half grown hog and was in a group of about nine all the same size. It was around 1am and I was out by my barn, when I spotted the group leaving the water trough. I was not out looking for pigs, but I was carrying my 4" model 66 S&W loaded with factory .357 Remington Golden Sabre.
With a flashlight in one hand, I rested on a fence post and took a shot. Amazingly I hit the hog. What was amazing about the shot was it was at night and I later measured it to be 50 yards. I am a good shot but that was stretching it, trying to see both the hog and the revolver sights with the flashlight.
It fell immediately and after about five seconds got up, dragging its back legs, and went about 30 feet off into the dark before it fell dead. I found it the next morning. I do not go looking for wounded hogs in the dark. There was an exit wound way back in its flank. Entry was up high behind the shoulder. It seemed to have received both spinal damage and multiple internal organ damage. I believe the bullet entered forward of the diaphragm and must have traveled close to the spine to knock out the back leg functions. It was dead when it fell after that 30 foot stumble because there was no indications in the mud that it laid there and thrashed about.

I was very pleased that one .357 magnum handgun round was capable of quickly killing a hog. Shot placement was probably 95% of the equation, but on the other hand I have 9mm pistols and I will not carry them for hog protection. I want to have either a .357 or 45colt for handgun hog protection.

Small to medium size hogs are way easier to kill than the big guys. I shot a 350+ pound boar with a 30-06 at 35 yards a few years ago. It ran 100 yards leaving buckets of blood and pieces of guts all along the path. When it finally fell it was dead dead. I have yet to shoot a big boar with a handgun.

dahermit · January 14, 2015, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Small to medium size hogs are way easier to kill than the big guys. I shot a 350+ pound boar with a 30-06 at 35 yards a few years ago. It ran 100 yards leaving buckets of blood and pieces of guts all along the path. When it finally fell it was dead dead. I have yet to shoot a big boar with a handgun.

Especially when they are not gut-shot it would seem.

Capt. Charlie · January 14, 2015, 11:30 AM

This is more appropriate for the handloading & reloading forum. Moving....

mikld · January 14, 2015, 11:59 AM

I think I'd stalk with the gun in my hand! Most angry animals are not going to give you much of a warning, and you'd have to be really fast on the draw!

I use 2400, Blue Dot, and WC820 for my heavier .357 Magnum loads. Never really liked H110/W296 and I get most my handgun loads from my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, and I've use cast bullet data for all the Hy-Tek bullets I've used...

jwilson48 · January 14, 2015, 07:40 PM

why didn't you like the h110? read some bad things regarding lil gun with eating up barrels and throats etc. lots of people talked highly of the h110 without much loss of speed. right now i may just be lucky to have what i got...went to bps today to pick up some lil gun and they were out of almost every powder on the shelf. going to hit a gun shop tomorrow about 80 miles away that usually has a better selection.

skizzums · January 14, 2015, 09:50 PM

h110 is great, gives a strong velocity only second to lil' gun. I believe(not sure) that h110 is likely the most popular .357mag powder out there. I personally prefer 4227, but only because it gives the option for less velocity on loads, and I don't hunt. I only have a pair of snubbies and full power 158gr loads are not fun for me to shoot. although I do load them for the rossi.

lil gun has capacity issues when loading lighter weight bullets, gets high velocity with little pressure, but can only go so far before compressing, so h110 actually gets better numbers in the 158gr and lighter projectiles. if you can handle heavy recoil, you would be fine with either running 180gr, h110 may be easier to find and be more versatile for your other loads

not sure why lil' gun would eat up barrels, it runs at a lower pressure than most of the others. maybe someone else has some insight to why that may be

Kosh75287 · January 14, 2015, 10:48 PM

9.0-9.3/Blue Dot/158 LSWC, work up in 0.1 grain intervals.

MY General Purpose .357 load is 8.0/Herco/158 LRNFP. Start at 7.2/Herco/158, and work up in 0.1 grain increments. I can usually get Herco to burn completely in a 6" barrel, but have had no luck getting 2400 to do, and won't even try with H110.
Blue Dot is more likely to burn completely in a 6" barrel than 2400, but I would still expect lots of muzzle fireworks. In low light conditions it can affect follow-up shots.

TimSr · January 14, 2015, 11:02 PM

Lots of good .357 powders out there, but if you are looking for maximum pounding, nothing performs better than H110/W296 in both velocity and accuracy. 17gr under a 158gr Hornady XTP is about as potent as you can get from the round. I use the same charge under a 158gr SWC for practice. Both shoot 5-6" groups at 50 yards from my 6" GP100, limited by my eyesight and iron sights.

mikld · January 15, 2015, 12:40 PM

Quote:

why didn't you like the h110?

H110/W296 either is or isn't. Meaning there is not much of a load "window" and all the loads are either Magnum loads or no loads. Not as "wide ranging" as I like as no reduced loading possible. When I started reloading for my .44 Magnums, in '86 when I was full of pi$$ and vinegar, and I loaded with W296 near max loads (I wanted a lot of noise, big muzzle blast, and wrist wrenching recoil (as much to show off at the range, strut my stuff, as to have hot loads

). I soon got over my case of "Magnumitis" and switched to 2400, WC820, AA 9, and Unique for more pleasant shooting; easier on me and my guns...

jwilson48 · January 15, 2015, 02:25 PM

Picked up a lb of w296! Only took 5 stores to find either it or h110. Can anyone tell me starting and max for the bullets I ordered? They aren't gas checked according to the website and I'm not sure where to start. Looking at hodgon website it only shows jacketed bullets

skizzums · January 15, 2015, 03:54 PM

I personally would start at 13 and work up. you can't download too much with your powder and your bullets shouldn't have a problem at that speed.13 may end up being as high as you will want though. hodgon data is a 10" barrel, so you'll prob only be seeing mid 1200's

TimSr · January 15, 2015, 04:02 PM

Quote:

I personally would start at 13 and work up. you can't download too much with your powder and your bullets shouldn't have a problem at that speed.

x2

jwilson48 · January 15, 2015, 08:06 PM

mikld...i understand what you mean now. this isn't going to be a target round other than the limited practice i use it for time to time to have a good "feel" for it. but for hunting and self preservation on a potential dangerous animal i feel more confident in a beefed up gun. thanks for the input

to everyone else...thanks for all help putting me on the right track. can't wait to get the bullets in and get to play with em. it's gonna be like having a whole new gun again!

Nick_C_S · January 15, 2015, 10:17 PM

Quote:

H110/W296 either is or isn't. Meaning there is not much of a load "window" and all the loads are either Magnum loads or no loads.

True.

It's not a "jack of all trades." It's a "master of one." I have W296 for one purpose: full-on, leave-nothing-on-the-table 357 & 44 magnum loads. I have no need or desire to use it for anything else. I have other propellents for other purposes.

GP100man · January 16, 2015, 06:09 AM

h-110 is kinda bright in low lite situations, for me a second shot will be on hold for a few seconds at least.

2400 or imr4227 is my go to powder for hunting , the "fast" powders ya gotta teeter on MAX pressures to get em going hunting speeds.

Lil`gun will wam up a barrel qwik during range/practice & again kinda flashy.

mxsailor803 · January 16, 2015, 07:43 AM

I've done a bunch of hog hunting with pistols from .357 and .44mags. Consider this, it may be a stiff load but don't make it uncontrollable. God forbid if you need a follow up shot and miss. I had a 120# sow just about run me over around christmas. I had my Remington 1100 with 00 buck, was originally deer hunting, and she came within 15 yds of me out of heavy brush area. The first load was to the fwd shoulder/neck area. The next 4 shots were to her head and chest. She fell in a creekbed that was between me and her. I ended up shooting her 2 more times with my 629 running a stiff Hornady 300gr xtp. While we were skinning her, we found that the buckshot had passed through the neck cleanly. We ended up having to throw away the shoulders to head away. Looked like swiss cheese. I bring this up because I would consider you take someone along that has a rifle, shotgun, pistol, etc. ready in case they turn at you. Or at least be in a tree.

January 13, 2015, 10:33 PM	#1
jwilson48 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2011 Posts: 105	.357 load for hog self defense well going hog hunting soon with my bow and plan on spot and stalk hunting. due to the potential for a mad hog wanting to eat me, i'm taking my .357 as backup. just ordered this for bullets from missouri bullet company.... .357 Pugnose - Hi-Tek .358 Diameter .357 Magnum 180 Grain WFN Flat-Base Brinell 18 For Maximum Energy Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating Price per box of 500 Price: $49.00 need to know some powder loads for this bullet. all i have right now is blue dot and titegroup for pistol powder. if one of these would work, that would be ideal, but if i have to buy something else i will. i am sure it would be used eventually. thanks in advance

January 13, 2015, 10:58 PM	#3
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	titegroup 5.0-5.5max stay on the low side for hi-tek lead I don't have data for blue dot or it's equivalents, someone else may the 5.5 of titegroup is only pushing 1020fps, so the hi-tek should actually hold up just fine. lil gun gets the best velocity for a 180gr @ 1422 which is screaming. h110, 4227 are good options to get you into the 1200 range __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed Last edited by skizzums; January 13, 2015 at 11:03 PM.

January 13, 2015, 11:23 PM	#5
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	forget what I said about hi-tek. they claim to hold up to over 3000fps, so your not going to get anywhere near half that. just generally speaking, for plated and coated bullets, you want to stay shy of a jacketed max load. but these 180's are going slow enough to handle anything, even just regular lube. I haven't used hi-tek, but if I was doing anything over 1200, I would at least want a gas-check __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

January 14, 2015, 11:10 AM	#6
twobit Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2010 Location: Coyote Creak, SW Texas Posts: 597	.357's will work I have hogs around my ranch so I'm always armed with either a .357 or 45colt. Sows with piglets are more apt to charge you than a boar if you surprise them. I have yet to shoot any hogs with any of my hand loads, but the last hog I shot was with a .357. It was about a half grown hog and was in a group of about nine all the same size. It was around 1am and I was out by my barn, when I spotted the group leaving the water trough. I was not out looking for pigs, but I was carrying my 4" model 66 S&W loaded with factory .357 Remington Golden Sabre. With a flashlight in one hand, I rested on a fence post and took a shot. Amazingly I hit the hog. What was amazing about the shot was it was at night and I later measured it to be 50 yards. I am a good shot but that was stretching it, trying to see both the hog and the revolver sights with the flashlight. It fell immediately and after about five seconds got up, dragging its back legs, and went about 30 feet off into the dark before it fell dead. I found it the next morning. I do not go looking for wounded hogs in the dark. There was an exit wound way back in its flank. Entry was up high behind the shoulder. It seemed to have received both spinal damage and multiple internal organ damage. I believe the bullet entered forward of the diaphragm and must have traveled close to the spine to knock out the back leg functions. It was dead when it fell after that 30 foot stumble because there was no indications in the mud that it laid there and thrashed about. I was very pleased that one .357 magnum handgun round was capable of quickly killing a hog. Shot placement was probably 95% of the equation, but on the other hand I have 9mm pistols and I will not carry them for hog protection. I want to have either a .357 or 45colt for handgun hog protection. Small to medium size hogs are way easier to kill than the big guys. I shot a 350+ pound boar with a 30-06 at 35 yards a few years ago. It ran 100 yards leaving buckets of blood and pieces of guts all along the path. When it finally fell it was dead dead. I have yet to shoot a big boar with a handgun. __________________ Twobit, Strive to live up to the opinion that your dog has of you.

January 14, 2015, 11:30 AM	#8
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	This is more appropriate for the handloading & reloading forum. Moving.... __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

January 13, 2015, 10:53 PM	#2
jwilson48 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2011 Posts: 105	i forgot to add...will be shot out of a taurus model 66...6" barrel.

January 13, 2015, 11:11 PM	#4
jwilson48 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2011 Posts: 105	really interested in the lil gun. that is crazy fast. why lower velocity with the hi-tek? with the brinell hardness of 18 i figured i could push as hard as i wanted to. am i missing something? this is my first time with this type of bullet, usually use a jhp for most things around here as we don't have anything hard skinned or big boned.

January 14, 2015, 11:59 AM	#9
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	I think I'd stalk with the gun in my hand! Most angry animals are not going to give you much of a warning, and you'd have to be really fast on the draw! I use 2400, Blue Dot, and WC820 for my heavier .357 Magnum loads. Never really liked H110/W296 and I get most my handgun loads from my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, and I've use cast bullet data for all the Hy-Tek bullets I've used... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

January 14, 2015, 07:40 PM	#10
jwilson48 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2011 Posts: 105	why didn't you like the h110? read some bad things regarding lil gun with eating up barrels and throats etc. lots of people talked highly of the h110 without much loss of speed. right now i may just be lucky to have what i got...went to bps today to pick up some lil gun and they were out of almost every powder on the shelf. going to hit a gun shop tomorrow about 80 miles away that usually has a better selection.

January 14, 2015, 09:50 PM	#11
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	h110 is great, gives a strong velocity only second to lil' gun. I believe(not sure) that h110 is likely the most popular .357mag powder out there. I personally prefer 4227, but only because it gives the option for less velocity on loads, and I don't hunt. I only have a pair of snubbies and full power 158gr loads are not fun for me to shoot. although I do load them for the rossi. lil gun has capacity issues when loading lighter weight bullets, gets high velocity with little pressure, but can only go so far before compressing, so h110 actually gets better numbers in the 158gr and lighter projectiles. if you can handle heavy recoil, you would be fine with either running 180gr, h110 may be easier to find and be more versatile for your other loads not sure why lil' gun would eat up barrels, it runs at a lower pressure than most of the others. maybe someone else has some insight to why that may be __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

January 14, 2015, 10:48 PM	#12
Kosh75287 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Posts: 820	9.0-9.3/Blue Dot/158 LSWC, work up in 0.1 grain intervals. MY General Purpose .357 load is 8.0/Herco/158 LRNFP. Start at 7.2/Herco/158, and work up in 0.1 grain increments. I can usually get Herco to burn completely in a 6" barrel, but have had no luck getting 2400 to do, and won't even try with H110. Blue Dot is more likely to burn completely in a 6" barrel than 2400, but I would still expect lots of muzzle fireworks. In low light conditions it can affect follow-up shots.

January 14, 2015, 11:02 PM	#13
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	Lots of good .357 powders out there, but if you are looking for maximum pounding, nothing performs better than H110/W296 in both velocity and accuracy. 17gr under a 158gr Hornady XTP is about as potent as you can get from the round. I use the same charge under a 158gr SWC for practice. Both shoot 5-6" groups at 50 yards from my 6" GP100, limited by my eyesight and iron sights.

January 15, 2015, 02:25 PM	#15
jwilson48 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2011 Posts: 105	Picked up a lb of w296! Only took 5 stores to find either it or h110. Can anyone tell me starting and max for the bullets I ordered? They aren't gas checked according to the website and I'm not sure where to start. Looking at hodgon website it only shows jacketed bullets

January 15, 2015, 03:54 PM	#16
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	I personally would start at 13 and work up. you can't download too much with your powder and your bullets shouldn't have a problem at that speed.13 may end up being as high as you will want though. hodgon data is a 10" barrel, so you'll prob only be seeing mid 1200's __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

January 15, 2015, 08:06 PM	#18
jwilson48 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2011 Posts: 105	mikld...i understand what you mean now. this isn't going to be a target round other than the limited practice i use it for time to time to have a good "feel" for it. but for hunting and self preservation on a potential dangerous animal i feel more confident in a beefed up gun. thanks for the input to everyone else...thanks for all help putting me on the right track. can't wait to get the bullets in and get to play with em. it's gonna be like having a whole new gun again!

January 16, 2015, 06:09 AM	#20
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	h-110 is kinda bright in low lite situations, for me a second shot will be on hold for a few seconds at least. 2400 or imr4227 is my go to powder for hunting , the "fast" powders ya gotta teeter on MAX pressures to get em going hunting speeds. Lil`gun will wam up a barrel qwik during range/practice & again kinda flashy. __________________ GP100man

January 16, 2015, 07:43 AM	#21
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	I've done a bunch of hog hunting with pistols from .357 and .44mags. Consider this, it may be a stiff load but don't make it uncontrollable. God forbid if you need a follow up shot and miss. I had a 120# sow just about run me over around christmas. I had my Remington 1100 with 00 buck, was originally deer hunting, and she came within 15 yds of me out of heavy brush area. The first load was to the fwd shoulder/neck area. The next 4 shots were to her head and chest. She fell in a creekbed that was between me and her. I ended up shooting her 2 more times with my 629 running a stiff Hornady 300gr xtp. While we were skinning her, we found that the buckshot had passed through the neck cleanly. We ended up having to throw away the shoulders to head away. Looked like swiss cheese. I bring this up because I would consider you take someone along that has a rifle, shotgun, pistol, etc. ready in case they turn at you. Or at least be in a tree.