The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 29, 2016, 10:55 AM   #101
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,400
that was wisdom.



regarding situational awareness, wife and i were reading in the living room and we saw fire outside. someone had set the leaves in the neighbor's yard on fire, it was heading towards the house.

wow, i took off running. there wasn't a hose at the side of the house, i yelled for my wife to get a rake and i started kicking a fire break. we'd already called it in, i'd piled the burning leaves and gotten it burned out and scattered the ashes before fire crews got there.

they didn't have a doorbell and hadn't heard my wife pounding on the door, and didn't even hear the sirens.

the next day, he was wondering what happened.

situational awareness score?

me: 10
him: zippity doo dah.
__________________
None.
briandg is offline  
Old September 29, 2016, 11:05 AM   #102
K_Mac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 1,850
Lohman we disagree on the value of carrying around the house, but little else. I also think there is value in the discussion, and completely agree that there is far more to being secure than just carrying a gun. There are far too many people carrying a gun who think that solves the problem, whatever it is. Good situational awareness is always being aware and looking for solutions before they are needed.
__________________
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin
K_Mac is offline  
Old September 29, 2016, 08:05 PM   #103
Snyper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 16, 2013
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 3,048
Quote:
And worrying 24/7/365 about hordes of armed invaders is paranoia.
You're the only one I've seen talk about "hordes".

I live 7 miles from a 1-stoplight town, and 25 miles from the nearest "city", but my next door neighbor once had an armed fugitive knock on his front door one Saturday afternoon.

Luckily he looked out his window before he opened the door and saw the guy was trying to conceal a sawed-off shotgun under his coat.

The cops had chased him from 25 miles away and he had bailed from the car about half a mile from here, but managed to avoid them for nearly 24 hours.

Being prepared at all times isn't so much "paranoid" as it is simply prudent.
__________________
One shot, one kill
Snyper is offline  
Old September 29, 2016, 08:25 PM   #104
Lohman446
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 1,963
Snyder: You do not mention if your neighbor was armed or not. The follow up question: would it have mattered to the outcome? Of the stories that have been shared I don't see where being armed would have mattered.
Lohman446 is offline  
Old September 29, 2016, 09:06 PM   #105
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,400
Fugitives are a problem, and not just escaped prisoners. A criminal of any kind fleeing police present a danger. Running, juiced on adrenaline, and willing to commit crimes to avoid capture.

My wife and I remain vigilant regarding police presence at our home. If a siren stops nearby, or we see lights down the block, lights go out and we go upstairs. We wait it out.

Not so long ago, I stepped outside and found cars parked at both ends of our street with lights off and another prowled past. Cars went through the area for hours.

You know darned well that I kept my pistol on my belt. After a while, I took a light and checked out my back yard.
__________________
None.
briandg is offline  
Old September 30, 2016, 02:51 AM   #106
Snyper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 16, 2013
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 3,048
Quote:
Snyder: You do not mention if your neighbor was armed or not. The follow up question: would it have mattered to the outcome? Of the stories that have been shared I don't see where being armed would have mattered.
I don't know if he was armed but since he saw the guy's gun, he just didn't go to the door, so the perp left.

There was a big "man-hunt" going on for a while, even to the point of using a helicopter with FLIR, but there are so many deer around here they gave up on that pretty quickly.

They found the guy the next day, ironically, hiding in the garage of a Deputy Sheriff a little further down the road

Had he shown up at my house instead, I would have been armed when I went to the door, or if he had approached while I was already outside.

I suspect he bypassed my house largely due to the fact that I had several dogs at the time, most in the 100-150 lb range, and electric fencing that limited access from most directions other than the main road.

I think if the robber was expecting an unarmed victim, he would have been in for a surprise.
__________________
One shot, one kill
Snyper is offline  
Old September 30, 2016, 06:11 AM   #107
Lohman446
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 1,963
Quote:
I don't know if he was armed but since he saw the guy's gun, he just didn't go to the door, so the perp left.
I think this is the issue I am trying to illustrate. In this case he was not opening the door to someone trying to conceal a shotgun outside. Had he not been aware enough to look closely first it would not have mattered if he had a holstered side-arm or not.

Because he looked he was calling the cops - side-arm or not.

Had he not looked he was either getting shot or held hostage - I highly doubt he would have been able to successfully deploy his gun against a long gun already in his adversary's hand if he opened the door unprepared.
Lohman446 is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 02:56 AM   #108
Snyper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 16, 2013
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 3,048
Quote:
Had he not looked he was either getting shot or held hostage - I highly doubt he would have been able to successfully deploy his gun against a long gun already in his adversary's hand if he opened the door unprepared.
I'm positive he couldn't deploy a gun he's not carrying.

He might be able to deploy one he is carrying, especially if the assailant has no idea he's armed.

I'd prefer to at least have a chance rather than to have no options at all other than compliance.
__________________
One shot, one kill
Snyper is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 07:08 AM   #109
Lohman446
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 1,963
I get you saying Snyper. I much rather he look before opening the door. Oddly while I don't carry in my house I am armed (or my wife is depending on things) when I open the door. At contact range (opening the door) facing an armed opponent there are likely better strategies than going for a holstered firearm

Last edited by Lohman446; October 1, 2016 at 01:17 PM.
Lohman446 is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 11:20 AM   #110
TheGunGeek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 156
Quote:
It takes about 3-5 seconds to kick through a LOCKED door.
Quote:
If a person using common burglar tools can enter my home and attack me faster than the 5 seconds it takes me to casually arm myself, there are already substantial security failures that need to be addressed.
Exactly, perhaps I'm now spoiled to some degree living in south FL, where your house needs to be hardened against hurricanes, but it seems some spend too much on the firearms aspect, and too little money & time on securing the house. Even when I was living in the north east, I had secured the doors and windows quite well, where someone can't break in quickly or quietly enough before I can properly react.

I have a steel front door (required by code) as well as hurricane glass on the windows. This glass is very effective. Every once in a while there will be a news story on TV where someone is caught on the homeowner's security camera trying to break in, with the goal of identifying the criminal. These can be funny sometimes in retrospect. In a recent one, two black males are trying to break through the sliding glass doors in the back. First they hit it with yard objects and fail. The second one gets frustrated, pulls a gun and shoots at the glass, and still failed to get in. They then gave up and left. The homeowner wasn't home at the time.

I only carry in the home if I'm trying a new holster or carry method, or I've been out and just haven't bothered to disarm.

Last edited by TheGunGeek; October 1, 2016 at 11:33 AM.
TheGunGeek is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 11:42 AM   #111
manta49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,755
Things would be bad if i felt that threatened i needed to walk around the house carrying a firearm.
manta49 is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 12:24 PM   #112
FireForged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 1,807
Quote:
It takes about 3-5 seconds to kick through a LOCKED door.
I think its fair to say that it takes 3-5 second to kick in "some" locked doors. A person is not going to kick through a decent solid door with any sort of decent security features.


There are many kinds of locksets.. commercial, builder, office, server, security, enhanced.

Even something as simple as a "door devil" plate will significantly increase the strength of a door.

The bottom lines is that if you want a good barrier, you have to put a little thought and effort into it.

watch the youtube vids on the door devil anti kick plate.
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...
FireForged is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 12:36 PM   #113
armoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,800
I carry in the home. I don't care a whit about anyone's feelings about it, it's a security choice I made decades ago. It is part of a layered security system including many different things, devices, and animals. I also live a few miles from the drug corridor the fed.gov ceded to the cartels a few years ago and have had running vehicular gun battles between LE and cartel members on the major street by my place. By the nature of my work, I and my family are also higher profile targets to the criminal element. Therefore, I carry at home, my wife carries at home, and we have other items available for home and travel defense.
armoredman is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 12:53 PM   #114
K_Mac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Things would be bad if i felt that threatened i needed to walk around the house carrying a firearm.
I will say that you are consistent mantra. I do not feel threatened or that I need to carry a gun around the house. Your typical condescension has no place in this discussion; it adds nothing. I choose to carry a gun for the same reason I wear a seat belt: It is easy to do, it costs nothing, and it is there if I need it. You equate carrying a gun with fear. I carry because it is a reasonable thing to do and the right of a free man.
__________________
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin
K_Mac is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 01:42 PM   #115
manta49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,755
Quote:
I will say that you are consistent mantra. I do not feel threatened or that I need to carry a gun around the house. Your typical condescension has no place in this discussion; it adds nothing. I choose to carry a gun for the same reason I wear a seat belt: It is easy to do, it costs nothing, and it is there if I need it. You equate carrying a gun with fear. I carry because it is a reasonable thing to do and the right of a free man.
People think differently, i have my guns in a safe because i doint feel that there is enough of a threat for me to feel the need to carry it around the house or have it near me, if others do thats up to them. If i was under threat then i would think differently. My house is somewhere relax not walk about tooled up.

Quote:
I will say that you are consistent mantra.Your typical condescension has no place in this discussion; it adds nothing.

Its not condescension its my view i just doint get it.
manta49 is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 02:26 PM   #116
K_Mac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
My house is somewhere relax not walk about tooled up.
Having a handgun in my waist band or pocket doesn't interfere with my relaxing anymore than wearing pants. My neighbors do not approve of me wandering around the yard naked, so if I'm wearing clothes anyway, I probably have a gun on me.

Quote:
Its not condescension its my view i just doint get it.
I understand you don't get it, and I am fine with that. Just do not conclude that all of us who regularly carry a gun do so out of fear. That simply isn't true.
__________________
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin
K_Mac is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 02:47 PM   #117
manta49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,755
Quote:
Just do not conclude that all of us who regularly carry a gun do so out of fear. That simply isn't true.
Maybe fear is the wrong word, concern of crime etc there has to be some reason. As i said if i had reason to be concerned i would rethink my security.
manta49 is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 03:37 PM   #118
K_Mac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Maybe fear is the wrong word, concern of crime etc there has to be some reason. As i said if i had reason to be concerned i would rethink my security.
Let's go back to seat belts. If I were concerned about having an accident every time I started my vehicle, I would have to reduce or eliminate my driving. That is not to say that every time I drive my truck there's not a chance of an accident, it just isn't a concern most of the time. You could make the case that unless road or traffic conditions are bad, with the small number of miles I drive, a seat belt probably isn't really needed. While the chances of needing a seat belt is very low, I wear one every time I get in a vehicle. Not wearing one isn't worth the consequences, slight as the risk may be.

Like antilock brakes or airbags, to continue with the metaphor, a concealed handgun is a reasonable choice whether they are ever needed or not.
__________________
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin
K_Mac is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 03:44 PM   #119
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,400
The problem is, no matter how safe you are, there is a criminal out there somewhere who would look at your house and say "yep, that's the right one" and skip over all the others. Does it make sense to not remain fully prepared? I don't know what the actual stats are regarding home break ins, but I'm sure that it seems impossible that lightning would strike, metaphorically speaking.

The funny thing is that my house while we've never had a break in, I'm pretty certain that I interrupted a break in. In the time that I have gone without break ins, this house was struck by lightning. Then two of the trees on my small yard were struck as well. A fourth time, I cleaned up after a huge storm, and found a branch from a huge sycamore that I own charred and burned, about a quarter block away. So the house has been hit once, trees hit twice, and another time there is no solid evidence, but it probably happened.

So, again metaphorically, I'd prefer to have a lightning rod handy for when the bozos decide that my house is the one. It may be one in a million, but seriously, really, what in the world are the odds of a home being struck not once, but three times by lightning in about ten years?
__________________
None.
briandg is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 03:50 PM   #120
manta49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,755
Quote:
Like antilock brakes or airbags, to continue with the metaphor, a concealed handgun is a reasonable choice whether they are ever needed or not.
Yes a lot of things in life comes down to odds, for example lots of people die getting out of bed but they do it anyway because the odds are low of it happening you. The odds of being injured or killed in a car crash are quite high, plus its a legal requirement here to wear a seat belt, compared with someone braking into your house and needing a firearm. So its up to the individual at the end of the day to assess the risk and make their decision on what precautions to take.
manta49 is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 03:52 PM   #121
FireForged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 1,807
I agree with the spirit of what Manta is saying.... there is a certain seriousness of mind that goes along with wearing a loaded firearm. It does not share the same universe with the cognitive attention given to wearing a seatbelt. Many people refer to it as being "on".. and I subscribe to that way of putting it. My home is where I get away from all that jazz and although I maintain a certain level of alertness, I am not [on] and I wont live that way at home. If a person wants to Rambo up while making a BLT in his kitchen.. have at it but we are just different kinds of people. Although I have carried a firearm for many decades and I am armed more often than not.. I have no desire to carry a gun. I do not carry out of desire, I only carry out of what I see as practical need. I think a lot of what we see in these kinds of discussions is a person constructing an argument based on what they simply want to do.
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...

Last edited by FireForged; October 1, 2016 at 04:19 PM.
FireForged is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 04:40 PM   #122
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,400
Being on is not necessarily a bad thing. Lots of people amble through life with less experience than a cat. Like I said on another thread, a person's yard caught fire, and my wife and I saw it and put it out, the homeowner slept through the sound of the fire truck.

The major lightning strike happened while we were out of the home. We saw it, I did some rough calculations of angle and distance and said to my wife, "holy whatever, dear, that might have been our block!"

We got home and the house was full of smoke. How many people have the awareness to pick up on something like that? We were about four miles away, but the lines and distance were clearly understood. Seriously, how many people would have even thought to ask that question?
__________________
None.
briandg is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 04:54 PM   #123
K_Mac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 1,850
FireForged how "on" do I have to be to have a loaded, holstered 380 in my pocket or a compact 9 holstered AIWB? Is that Ramboing up? I don't give it a second thought most of the time while at home. You choose not to carry at home. Good for you. Yes, I have made a conscious decision to carry at home. Since it is not a necessity, I suppose you're right that I want to. I want to for all the reasons I've listed. Condemning someone for making that choice doesn't make any sense to me.
__________________
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin
K_Mac is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 05:43 PM   #124
FireForged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 1,807
I would never condemn a person for carrying a firearm, I am simply critical of a person deciding to work the problem backwards if they are concerned with someone getting into their home. If you don't want people suddenly appearing inside your home then take steps to keep them out or at least significantly delay them. As I said in my first post, if a person can enter your home in 5-10-20-30 seconds, you have already failed to a large degree.
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...
FireForged is offline  
Old October 1, 2016, 06:18 PM   #125
Lohman446
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 1,963
Fireforged has a point in this. I don't care if you carry in your home. I don't find it necessary and believe the reasoning can be articulated. Your welcome to your own judgement
Lohman446 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.15652 seconds with 9 queries