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Old April 29, 2014, 05:46 AM   #1
johnelmore
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Bear Repellent vs Pepper Spray

I did my research and the difference is one spray is more acceptable to use and possess then the other spray. The "Bear repellent" is more acceptable to have on your person in certain prohibitive states. In New York, for example, there are certain brands of bear repellent which are regarded as "Pesticides" and thus are legal to carry around on you.

The "bear repellent" is essentially the same thing as riot control or pepper spray. It comes in a larger bottle and can spray 20-30 feet just like the riot control sprays. They say there is a difference in the formulation, but I bet its the same thing. It wouldnt be cost effective for them to have different formulas. The same pepper spray that goes into the bear repellent is the same which goes into all their other bottles.

There is a thread on here about how its more acceptable to a jury to defend yourself with a Mini-14 then it is with an AR-15. I wonder if the same applies to the bear repellent. If you have a can of Guard Alaska, then it looks like you just had it to go after the four-legged creatures whereas if you have that black bottle of Fox then it looks like you were out to get the two-legged variety.

In any event, I prefer the bear repellent as it has a good reach and a larger bottle then the little can of Fox. If I was working behind the counter of a store or traveling down the interstate, I would most certainly want the 10.9 ounce bottle bear repellent compared to the 4 ounce can of Fox.

Just my personal opinion and 2 cents on this morning....food for thought...

Youtube video of Pharmacist using the "Pesticide" in New York state. Looks very effective in getting rid of pests.
http://youtu.be/kpIjtVDqiIg

My favorite is this video. The store clerk just keeps the button depressed on the Guard Alaska can until its out or about 9 seconds worth of spray. After he runs out of gas, then he continues on to give the perp a good spanking followed by some kicks from the lady. I cant imagine what it feels like to get that Guard Alaska in your face for the "full pull". It looks like the fight is out of him at the end and he can no longer stand which seems about right after standing through the "full pull".
http://youtu.be/_G3HHXsikps
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Old April 29, 2014, 07:04 AM   #2
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The "Bear repellent" is more acceptable to have on your person in certain prohibitive states. In New York, for example, there are certain brands of bear repellent which are regarded as "Pesticides" and thus are legal to carry around on you.
Maybe, until it is determined that you are carrying for the purpose of using as a weapon and then the legality issue becomes problematic.
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Old April 29, 2014, 07:13 AM   #3
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Several states consider Bear Repellent/pepper spray/mace as weapons.

No states ban or consider hair spray as a weapon that I know of.

Hair spray is quite effective as repellent for bandits.

Just saying.
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Old April 29, 2014, 07:44 AM   #4
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Which states prohibit animal repellants?
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Old April 29, 2014, 08:00 AM   #5
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My sister once defended herself with a can of carburetor cleaner. Probably similar in effect to the hairspray that Kraig mentioned. She aimed for his face but hit him in the chest instead. That was enough and he left while screaming profanities and promising revenge. He is lucky. If she had hit him in the face it might have done permanent serious eye damage.
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Old April 29, 2014, 08:21 AM   #6
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In the trucking business, many point out the fire extinguisher in the cab as a self defense spray, but the chemicals in an extinguisher are not designed for animals or humans. Breathing in the chemicals in an extinguisher can do permanent damage to the lungs. Dry chemical types are considered corrosives so if exposed to it you need to be handled the same way as if you had acid dumped on you. There is an obvious problem spraying someone with something not designed for animals or humans in that their can be permanent injury or fatalities.

I did research the law with Google and there are only a few states with restrictions which are the usual unfriendly states we all know of. However even in those states you can still carry a certain amount of pepper spray and animal repellant is legal in some of the unfriendly states. New York considers bear repellant as a pesticide. New Jersey law says there is a 100 dollar fine involved if they catch you with more then 3/4 ounce. Please do your own research as my legal knowledge is confined to what I can Google
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Old April 29, 2014, 09:30 AM   #7
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Bear repellent sprays are stronger. Either should be effective against humans. I wouldn't suggest pepper spray designed for human threats against a large bear though.
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Old April 29, 2014, 10:03 AM   #8
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If you are working behind the counter of the store, is anyone really going to believe that you have a can of bear spray behind the counter for bears?
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Old April 29, 2014, 12:17 PM   #9
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That would depend on where you work. They had some behind the counter at the motel we stayed out just outside of Yosemite.

The problem with a lot of commercial products such as hair spray is that they are not exactly tested for effectiveness against humans. Many products may only affect the eyes and then only to a limited extent. You don't know what it may or may not do and you don't know how one product compares with another. Many have extremely short range capability at that. Additionally, the effects with some may only be very short lived and certainly far from incapacitating or dissuading.

OC affects eyes, nose, mouth, and lungs. Most are designed to spray out to a minimum of 10 ft.
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Old April 29, 2014, 05:45 PM   #10
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The compact 3/4 varieties have barely enough spray or range. You have to get a lucky hit. Those are not suggested for self defense. The bigger the can and the further the spray the better. The bear spray hoses the target down making the chances of hitting the face much greater then your compact version.

As for the formulations, from the videos I have seen it seems like Fox reduces people to a mess. All other brands people seem to be able to fight through. There are quite a few YouTube videos to review in that regard

Now is there a different kind of formulation in the bear spray then what is put in the self defense can? My guess is no. I think a company will try to keep things as simple as possible. The big difference is the volume and range. The bear spray container hoses people down with pepper whereas the typical self defense can gives a pleasant sprinkle. If all I had was pepper to defend myself then I will take the bear can.

I am the owner of a 16 ounce Fox riot control can with the cone pattern just for my home. Its not marketed as bear spray but I think it will take down any animal. I also have the Sabre Red Frontiersman which I use when I'm camping. I am now also carrying the Sabre withave me in my bag for when I am out driving seeing what happened the other day.
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Old April 29, 2014, 06:28 PM   #11
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I don't get out much these days. If I buy a big powerful bear spray to keep in my home just in case bears or other dangerous critters show up in my area... and it's the closest thing at hand if a bad guy is coming at me then I'll use it.
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Old April 29, 2014, 06:33 PM   #12
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Local wisdom here is Hornet spray of the type that shoots 20 feet is pretty good against mammals - mail men carry it for wasps and hornets, year around.
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Old April 29, 2014, 06:49 PM   #13
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Fox pepper spray hottest out there imo.
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Old April 29, 2014, 07:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
I did research the law with Google and there are only a few states with restrictions which are the usual unfriendly states we all know of. However even in those states you can still carry a certain amount of pepper spray and animal repellant is legal in some of the unfriendly states. New York considers bear repellant as a pesticide. New Jersey law says there is a 100 dollar fine involved if they catch you with more then 3/4 ounce. Please do your own research as my legal knowledge is confined to what I can Google
Last I knew (a few years ago) pepper spray was legal in Massachusetts only if you had a pistol carry permit (which is rare in Massachusetts).
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Old April 29, 2014, 07:31 PM   #15
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Btmj, what kind of carb cleaner was she using? Working on my car, I swear I've had that stuff all over my hands with no effects.
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Old April 29, 2014, 10:25 PM   #16
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In the last 10 years, I have used UDAP bear spray on
attacking dogs twice. I have also used it on a couple
of aggressive drunks. It worked fine every time. I would
much prefer to spray than have to shoot.
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Old April 30, 2014, 12:08 AM   #17
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There are a number of states that will put you in jail for using wasp spray on a human.
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Old April 30, 2014, 12:09 AM   #18
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what kind of carb cleaner was she using? Working on my car, I swear I've had that stuff all over my hands with no effects.
Yesterday 07:19 PM
It was 1988 vintage carb cleaner (more or less)... probably from western auto. I remember working with the stuff, and based on the smell I think it contained powerful solvents such as toluene and xylene, as well as chlorinated hydrocarbons. skin contact was no problem, but breathing the vapors was bad, and eye contact would have been a disaster.

my sister was 20 and getting out of a bad relationship... and the boy just did not understand the meaning of "its over"... so when he got physically rough with her, she bit him, threw a brick at him, and finally hosed him down with carb cleaner aiming for his eyes... that seemed to do the trick. I was always impressed that he took a brick to the rib cage, but it was carb cleaner that took the fight out of him.
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Old April 30, 2014, 02:26 AM   #19
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It's often labeled that it's a violation of Federal law to use sprays in means for which they are not intended. I have NO idea if Bear Spray and Human Pepper Spray are the same formula. I've been sprayed with Fox Labs OC in training, and it was VERY effective against myself and most of my class. This stuff will spray a large cone out to 20', and render most men and aggressive animals ineffective almost immediately, and doesn't require a direct hit.

http://www.foxlabs.com/products/pepp...nits_AE10.html

Now... if you use an improvised item you might survive an attack with such an improvised 'weapon' as hornet spray, or bear spray, or carburetor spray, only to face criminal prosecution, civil lawsuits, etc. which bleed you dry financially, and ruin your life even if you win. Nothing says "life sucks" like spending 3 years and $200,000 defending criminal prosecution and lawsuits for blinding the guy that was attacking you, that you otherwise could have shot and killed lawfully.

Carry the appropriate, societally acceptable weapon for self and don't overthink it.

Not sure why folks always want to try to re-create the wheel. Multi-million dollar companies design excellent self-defense weapons, which work. Yet people want to 'home-brew' their own secret little widget for self defense.

Research and buy and carry/have handy an effective, tested item that is accepted in self-defense industry. If you ever use it, you can call upon experts to testify that your use was 100% in compliance with acceptable industry self defense standards, and you used it properly, etc. etc. etc.

If you live in a state that doesn't allow you to protect your life, consider your options of moving to a free state if you can't change the laws.

On my neighborhood walks, I carry my concealed firearm, but also carry a can of Fox labs to ward off the aggressive inquisitive dogs or other pseudo threats. I'd prefer to not have to draw my firearm in a residential area.

Last edited by leadcounsel; April 30, 2014 at 02:40 AM.
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Old April 30, 2014, 07:35 AM   #20
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Quote:
Local wisdom here is Hornet spray of the type that shoots 20 feet is pretty good against mammals - mail men carry it for wasps and hornets, year around.
Local wisdom via state laws from various jurisdictions is that such sprays are considered to be poisons and so use against people could be considered lethal force.

See Glenn's comment here...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...y+lethal+force

Quote:
There are a number of states that will put you in jail for using wasp spray on a human.
Only if you didn't have a justification for lethal force.
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Old April 30, 2014, 08:41 AM   #21
johnelmore
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Nope. Don't use wasp spray or hornet spray. Don't use the extinguisher or hair spray. Pepper is legal in MOST places. In a few other places it's legal with conditions. Call your local police department if not sure.

I carry around the 2 ounce bottle of Fox and since that road rage incident I now carry the Sabre Frontiersman with me in my laptop bag. Ive tested the Fox myself by dabbing a little bit on my face after spraying some into my hand. Even that little dab really did it. I jumped in the shower but that didnt help matters. If I put other chemicals on my face like the wasp spray or the extinguisher chemicals I might be blind by now. However, it was a non permanent moment for youtube.

Right tool for the job
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Old April 30, 2014, 09:04 AM   #22
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Posted by Double Naught Spy: [In response to "There are a number of states that will put you in jail for using wasp spray on a human."] Only if you didn't have a justification for lethal force.
That is true.

However, state law is only a part of the problem.

There is a Federal law, which provides for vey heavy criminal and civil penalties, which prohibits the use of wasp spray or the active ingredients therein (among other things) on human beings.

The case would, of course, be tried in a Federal District Court. That has been done, in a case involving a different substance.

There is no provision for a defense of justification.

However, the law does state that criminal use would have to be knowing and willful. There are a number of Federal laws that do not include that pros ion.
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Old April 30, 2014, 09:22 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
The problem with a lot of commercial products such as hair spray is that they are not exactly tested for effectiveness against humans. Many products may only affect the eyes and then only to a limited extent. You don't know what it may or may not do and you don't know how one product compares with another. Many have extremely short range capability at that. Additionally, the effects with some may only be very short lived and certainly far from incapacitating or dissuading.
The other side is that some of these products may be extremely toxic and cause permanent damage to a person. Basically, don't use stuff for a purpose for which it is not intended.
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Old April 30, 2014, 10:00 AM   #24
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I think if you planned and attacked someone with wasp spray you should be harshly punished. IF you were attacked and defended yourself with the first thing you grabbed and that turned out to be wasp spray... that should be ok. But if you were walking around with a holstered can....that may be enough to show intent to use it as a weapon. That is what could be big trouble!

In my opinion, it's probably best to just get the right legal stuff for the task at hand. Less worries about will it work and will it backfire you into hot water.
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Old April 30, 2014, 10:56 AM   #25
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Posted by cougar gt-e: IF you were attacked and defended yourself with the first thing you grabbed and that turned out to be wasp spray... that should be ok.
There is no provision in the federal law that would support a defense on that basis.

BUT...the Assistant US Attorney for the District could elect to exercise some judgment and decide to not prosecute.

Last November, SCOTUS heard arguments on an appeal of a conviction under the law; some of the Justices were said to be dubious about the scope of the law, but the issue is a very complex one, and anything could happen. Expect some kind of resolution before the summer.

In the interim, don't even think about using it except against insects.

From the standpoint of state use of force law, you would be equally served using a firearm if you can carry one lawfully, and you are less likely to blind yourself.
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