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Old June 11, 2007, 11:21 AM   #51
sabo954
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What I use is my Ruger Mini-30, which I have worked all the bugs out of and managed to acquire six 30 rnd mags and a 20 that are in good working order. It has a muzzle break w/a H&K-style front sight, and a Choate Dragunov-style stock. While it's not the best choice for any one scenario, it is adequate for just about any scenario you can think of under 300 yards. There is definitely something to be said for versatility.

Beyond 300 yards, I have a Mosin Nagant I am working on that once completed, there will not be another in the world quite like it.

I am a firm believer in long guns, and that your pistol's primary use (other than concealed carry) is to fight your way back to your long gun that you never should have put down in the first place. For that role, I have a PA-63.
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Old June 11, 2007, 11:49 AM   #52
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I'm not sure what you consider SHTF... it may be a break in... Or it could be one of those "fall of society" senarios... Personally, i tend to go with the last one.

Were you ever to have to depend on a weapon long term to defend yourself, and possibly provide food, you want to make sure its something that is in a common caliber. Sure, you can have that oddball .50beowulf, 204Ruger, or 300WSM and make handloads for it.. but what if you are driven from your home by superior firepower? Once the ammo on your person is used up, the gun is useless. You dont find that sort of ammo lying around abandoned.

For a shotgun, I'd go with a 3" 12ga. 3" not for the larger shells, but because it opens up a wider range of ammo to use should you have to scavange for it. Go with a simple pump. Normally I dont like remingtons, but its the most common, so parts would be easier to find, should it break.

When it comes to rifles, once again.. somthing thats easy to find. .223, 7.62x39, 30-30, .308 or 30.06, or a pistol caliber like 45auto or 9mm for a carbine. If price is important to you, you will no go wrong with a good SKS, or a Marlin 336 30-30. Despite their non-tatical apearance, they do handle very quickly, are easy to shoot, have fairly light recoil, and with pratice, you can hit anything within 150 yards. The 30-30 has been one of the most popular deer calibers for 120 years for a reason. It does its job VERY well, if you respect its limitations. The SKS is tougher than quantum physics in latin, and will take any abuse you can throw at it. Cleaning is optional in a SHTF senario. Both rifles and cartriges were designed in a time when gunsmiths werent in every town, and weapons didnt have warranties. They had to be capable of taking heavy use and abuse and continuing to perform well. Shots over 200yards can be made with either gun, but you'll have to aim a little high.
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Old June 11, 2007, 12:01 PM   #53
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7.62x39 depends almost wholly on imports. If things were disrupted, that'd be gone.

I wouldn't use any Russian calibers for a SHTF longterm thing. 5.56 can be obtained near anywhere, since the military and police have vast stockpiles, especially if you were helping them with something.

This would be why my choice is a 5.56 AK. Uses the most common domestic rifle ammo, and is as rugged as any AK.
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Old June 11, 2007, 12:25 PM   #54
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I have an 870, a Beretta CX4 in .45, and an FAL .308. I'm finishing up an AR carbine build. No matter what SHTF means, I got something for it.
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Old June 11, 2007, 03:57 PM   #55
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Mannedwolf, you are right about 7.62x39 being imported... But were society to fall to its knees, all ammunition would cease to be manufactured. What the military and police had, they would either guard closely, or take home to keep for themselves.

7.62x39 is a very common round, even in the US. Because its cheap, many people have stockpiled thousands of rounds, and its not that difficult to find. Most shooters have at least 100 rounds of it on hand, and many have much more. Ocasionally cases bought beforein the pre-ban scare of the 90's turn up in barns or basments, completely forgotten. Eventually the supply of ammo would dry up.... and unless you had access to military stockpiles, or reloading equipment, so would the supply of 223.

In a very worse case senario... eventually (think 50-100 years) the people would turn back to blackpower firearms, unless they could secure a cache of primers, brass, and lead casting equipment in the rifle of their choice.
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Old June 11, 2007, 04:36 PM   #56
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Oh, I wasn't thinking of a "civilization comes to end" level of interruption. I just mean that if it gets bad enough that transatlantic shipping is cut due to economics or terrorism, there just won't be any more Russian ammo coming ashore. It'd be bad times, worse than the great depression, but still civilization.
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Old June 11, 2007, 06:15 PM   #57
normal
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I like the shotgun for it's versitility. You can load slugs, buckshot, or birdshot for a wide variety of situations. It is also hard to beat a pump shotgun for total reliability. I love my AK, but the versitility of the shotgun wins out in my opinion.
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Old June 11, 2007, 06:17 PM   #58
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m4. 7 years of using them in training and combat make it a no brainer. i have less muscle memory with other systems. a pump shotgun is the winner of the ease of use category though
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Old June 11, 2007, 10:19 PM   #59
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I agree that in a society collapse scenario, common calibers used by US military and law enforcement would probably be bought up, confiscated, and hoarded by the government and/or it's employees.

The way I think about it is, "What calibers is the enemy likely to be using?" Because, after all, who are you going to be taking out and helping yourself to their equipment? Having weapons that are interchangeable calibers with what the enemy uses is preferable for a SHTF scenario. Otherwise, when you run out of your caliber, your weapon will be just a really expensive bludgeon. Or in the case of the M4, not even that. Additionally, moving large quantities of ammo can become a logistics problem for a slough of reasons in such a scenario.

Second, you have to have a round that is going to be effective at ranges and against targets that you would likely encounter. Is you opponent likely to be armored? Would you end up stuck in open country or downtown?

No matter what you end up with, be it a Louisville Slugger or a Barrett .50, you have to know how to use your weapon effectively, both mechanically and tactically. If you lack the skills, you're pretty screwed no matter what you got.
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Old June 11, 2007, 10:23 PM   #60
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In Case of SHTF.....

Question to all....
I have 2 Mossbergs, and a Winchester, as well as several pistols(Glocks/Colts)..in in extreme cases of SHTF, would the loaded weapon in every room scenario be effective or having your primary and secondary in hand with tactical reloads available be a better option?
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Old June 12, 2007, 07:17 PM   #61
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Well, I was taught to always maintain positive control of your weapon... Leaving one loaded in every room of your house doesn't seem to fit that very well. Not to mention extremely unsafe, especially if you have children or guests in the house.

Extreme SHTF, you should have your weapon on your person, period. Sleeping, eating, taking a crap, it shouldn't be out of arm's reach.
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Old June 13, 2007, 10:28 AM   #62
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I recommend a rifle over the shotgun.

Remember the LA bank robbery shootout?

The situation only got resolved when police with RIFLES came on to the scene.
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Old June 13, 2007, 11:23 AM   #63
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If you're thinking on collecting the enemys ammo to feed your rifle, you don't need the rifle. If you've got time to collect the enemys ammo, you can pick up a couple of his guns, too. So have what you want, with plenty of ammo now, and practice to be proficient enough to be able to be the one collecting up things when the smoke clears.
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Old June 13, 2007, 11:56 AM   #64
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Quote:
If you're thinking on collecting the enemys ammo to feed your rifle, you don't need the rifle. If you've got time to collect the enemys ammo, you can pick up a couple of his guns, too.
+1
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Old June 13, 2007, 12:11 PM   #65
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First out of the safe will be my Mossberg 590A1, but I keep a M1 Carbine w/ 30rnd mag and Sig P226 in ready standby. If there is time for zombie "surgery at a distance", then out comes a sporterized 1903A3 w/ 3x9 Nikon glass.
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Old June 18, 2007, 04:07 PM   #66
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IRFAn get the shotgun - everyone should have at least one - think about which Benellli you buy tho - some of the benelli parts are expensive - if you get a Super Black Eagle semi 12 ga. and want to get a shorter barrel think again it will be around $200 or more because the top of the receiver is part of the barrel.

If you don't want a pump in either Mossberg or Reminton think FNP SLP or a Remington semi.
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Old June 18, 2007, 04:38 PM   #67
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Why can't you use both guns(shotgun and rifle) during Teotwawki?
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Old June 18, 2007, 06:12 PM   #68
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No reason whatsoever. If TEOTWAWKI goes down, best to be armed like Josie Wales or Mad Max when he checks into Thunderdome.
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Old June 18, 2007, 06:42 PM   #69
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I don't like leaving guns out in every room because I am too lazy to lock them all up when I leave and get them all back out when I come home.

I just carry my ccw everywhere. If I am home I am armed and if I am out and about I am armed where legally allowed.

As far as having both a shotgun and a rifle I think that works when at home but would get heavy in some situations.

Overall it does boil down to the choices being different for every person since their situation is different.

Even neighbors will usually choose different stuff because they prefer one platform over another or they have trained with stuff different from what their neighbor has trained with.

My biggest concerns are being in another state visiting relatives and another riot like the cincinnati riots happens. I figure mother nature hissy fits come next.
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Old June 22, 2007, 07:22 PM   #70
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shtf

1. I sleep next to (and carry) a P220

2. I keep a Mini-14 ready to go in the bedroom closet, 20 rounds in a 30 round mag with another loaded mag next to it.

I also keep a cell phone, car remote with panic button, one dog, one knife and a flashlight next to/near the bed.

Preparing for SHTF is a combination of things, not just keeping a firearm close by.
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Old June 23, 2007, 02:29 PM   #71
David Armstrong
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Quote:
The situation only got resolved when police with RIFLES came on to the scene.
Not a good example. First, one BG was taken out by a pistol, and the other one was taken out by rifle at a distance of about 50 feet. Either could have been taken out with a shotgun if the operator had the right ammo and knew how to use it. One might also note that the BGs, armed with rifles, both died at the scene. Nothing against rifles for SHTF, but the North Hollywood shoot doesn't offer much support for the idea.

AS for TEOTWAWKI, that is quite different than SHTF. A good .22 with a couple of boxes of ammo might be the best choice for that.
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Old June 23, 2007, 04:57 PM   #72
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I've been on vacation for the last month and no where near a computer most of the time, so this one got up to seventy some posts before I got to it.

We don't do SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, or zombie threads here, folks (except for that one day in October ). This thread's remained civil and even informative at times, but in general, most of these threads end up in silly scenarios (granted: Katrina excepted.) and a free-for-all. Even the SHTF title tends to make us look like a bunch of radical survivalists to outsiders. T'ain't good for our image, folks.

So, while I do appreciate y'all keeping this one polite & on topic, it's gotta go.

Sorry,... but closed.
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