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August 3, 2014, 12:21 PM | #1 | |
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Understanding ORS 161.219, Oregon
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http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/161.219 In regards to (2) it seems like too much of a "blanket statement" to describe all situations of lethal force exceptions during a burglary. How is it possible to be justified in using lethal force if the defender is not in jeopardy? Also, does this section apply only to the property owner, like say if you see someone breaking into your neighbors house? I understand that burglary in Oregon is a felony, and I have heard people say that deadly force is justified in preventing a felony but I have not studied up on that aspect enough to say its true, so any clarification on that is a bonus.
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August 3, 2014, 12:36 PM | #2 |
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As I Google into this I think I may have just found a possible answer... its important to distinguish the difference between Burglary and Criminal Trespass, the later which is not a felony and a burglary is trespassing with the intent to commit another crime.
http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.255 What still grey to me though is while it might be obvious justification of lethal force if the suspect say was visibly armed but its not so obvious justification if the suspect is not visibly armed.... (if I said that right!). IOW what if the intent of the suspect was simple larceny?
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August 3, 2014, 10:02 PM | #3 |
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How are Oregonians going to determine intent? Doesn't seem to be a requirement of the law.
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August 3, 2014, 10:47 PM | #4 | |||
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If something is not against the law, it is legal. Quote:
Without the definitions from the Oregon statutes I can't address the difference between criminal trespass and burglary, but to my mind trespass is entering without permission, while burglary involves breaking in. I mean, have you ever heard of a criminal being charged with "Possession of trespassing tools"? So you see a guy in a black sweatshirt on your neighbor's lawn -- that's maybe trespass. If the same guy has a crowbar in his hand and is trying to pry open a window, that's burglary. |
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August 3, 2014, 11:26 PM | #5 | |||||
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Quote:
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So if someone kicks in your door and yells, "Where is your jewelry?", that sounds like a burglary. If your neighbor falls through your door, forcing it open, muttering, "dis don't look like my house", you've probably got a lost and drunk neighbor. So as we've said before, these laws don't create a free-fire zone, nor are they licenses to kill. They are more like escape hatches when your left with absolutely no other choice.
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August 4, 2014, 10:49 PM | #6 |
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I think I might be reading too much into determining the "intent" of a burglar. The word burglar itself already describes the intent, hes trespassing to do other crimes and thus you have reason to fear for your safety. So IOW that would mean there is already enough evidence to reasonably presume he is indeed a burglar not a lost drunk. The law does sound like a Castle Doctrine, and I do understand a Castle Doctrine does not create a free-fire zone like Franks example I don't want to shoot a lost drunk... actually I don't even want to shoot a burglar I'm still going to let the jeopardy rule be part of my programming but understanding that the act of burglary escalates the situation to be in jeopardy.... at least in Oregon.
Am I on the right track?
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August 5, 2014, 12:00 PM | #7 | |
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You need to be able to discern whether he's committing, attempting to commit or committed the felony. When your emotions and adrenaline are pumping it may not seem like a difference but there's a BIG difference in the court room.
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August 5, 2014, 12:52 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
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August 5, 2014, 02:48 PM | #9 |
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Yes.
And thats why a Castle Doctrine is not a license to kill. Thankyou for helping clarify the law, im going to work into my training to look for all the elements of the situation before taking action.
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