Military Pistol Purchase?

triggerhappy2006 · February 6, 2010, 11:05 AM

I am currently at A-school but I will soon be at my permanent duty station and I will be looking to build my pistol collection. Now I know under federal law you CANNOT purchase a pistol in a state you are not a resident in, but seeing as how I am stationed in Florida now and soon to be moving on, am I exempt from this law seeing as I am LIVING in the state as a military member?

Hkmp5sd · February 6, 2010, 11:26 AM

You are considered a resident of whatever state your orders assign you to. It the case of a naval vessel, you are a resident of the state the ship is home ported in.

zoomie · February 6, 2010, 12:41 PM

To add to what Hkmp5sd said, just take your PCS orders and IDs in with you and you'll get the same treatment as a local (that is: if they have a waiting period or other such nonsense, you probably do, too). TDY orders do not count, and that's probably what your school orders are.

Doyle · February 6, 2010, 12:51 PM

Seeing that you are just in A-school I'm guessing that you are E3 or under. At most commands, unmarried E3 and below are forced to live in gov't housing (either on the ship or on base). If that is your case, building a collection right now might be a little difficult. The Navy tends to frown on keeping your personal firearms on the ship or in the BEQ.

Aaron67Camaro · February 6, 2010, 03:13 PM

You have to take a copy of your orders, which HAVE TO BE NOTARIZED! Also your DL and something else that has the same address as your DL. Good luck with your purchase!

zoomie · February 6, 2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

You have to take a copy of your orders, which HAVE TO BE NOTARIZED!

Is that from experience? I've never heard of that in all my assignments.

vranasaurus · February 6, 2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

You have to take a copy of your orders, which HAVE TO BE NOTARIZED! Also your DL and something else that has the same address as your DL. Good luck with your purchase!

The orders do not have to be notarized. What on the orders would you be notarizing anyway?

Also you do not have to have your drivers license. Some places will request it and some won't sell to you unless the address on your drivers license matches the 4473(I know walmart won't). But that is a requirement of the FFL and is not part of the GCA. You do not have to present any other documentation that has the same address of your drivers license.

An FFL may have a company policy regarding addresses but that is not the law.

Most FFLs only require a copy of your orders and a matching military ID. Some have even asked to look at my drivers license but they weren't bothered by the fact that I had an Iowa drivers license yet I was buying a pistol in Kentucky and now Mississippi.

Aaron67Camaro · February 6, 2010, 07:39 PM

A few places around the Tidewater area of VA have asked for orders that had to be notarized, along with your drivers license. I have been required that as well as other friends also. Maybe its just because its a military heavy area.

NavyLT · February 6, 2010, 09:00 PM

This is what the ATF says:

Page 135 of the 2005 Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf

A member of the Armed Forces on
active duty is a resident of the
State in which his or her permanent
duty station is located, and
may satisfy the identification
document requirement by presenting
his or her military identification
card along with official orders
showing that his or her permanent
duty station is within the State
where the licensed premises are
located.

ATF Rul. 2001-5

Section 921(b) of the GCA provides
that a member of the Armed Forces
on active duty is a resident of the
State in which his permanent duty
station is located. The purchaser's
official orders showing that his or her
permanent duty station is within the
State where the licensed premises
are located suffice to establish the
purchaser's residence for GCA purposes.
In combination with a military
identification card, such orders will
satisfy the Brady Act's requirement for
an identification document, even
though the purchaser may actually
reside in a home that is not located on
the military base.

Held further, a purchaser who is a
member of the Armed Forces on active
duty is a resident of the State in
which his or her permanent duty station
is located, and may satisfy the
identification document requirement
by presenting his or her military identification
card along with official orders
showing that his or her permanent
duty station is located within the State
where the licensed premises are located.
ATF Ruling 79-7, ATFQB 79-1, 26, is
hereby superseded.
Date signed: December 31, 2001

Anything beyond a copy of orders and the military ID card is a requirement the FFL has, not a requirement placed by the ATF.

MTT TL · February 6, 2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

A few places around the Tidewater area of VA have asked for orders that had to be notarized, along with your drivers license. I have been required that as well as other friends also. Maybe its just because its a military heavy area.

Which places?

I am not saying that they can't make this a requirement on their own but that I will simply avoid them in the future. Even if there is no requirement they can sell to whoever they want to for whatever reason. There is no logical way to get orders properly notarized anyway as the originating authority is not really available.

I have purchased about 25 guns in the last 22 years of service. In the folowing states: NC- Required pistol permit and lots of paperwork, TX- Cash and carry (resident), VA- Cash and carry (easy w/ CHL), KS- Orders and Mil ID, DL, CO- Orders, Mil ID, DL.... etc etc... every state is different. Just go to the gun shop and ask them what they need.

I mean really which places?

Aaron67Camaro · February 6, 2010, 09:37 PM

I know for a fact at Bass Pro Shops. Also saw a guy at Green Top in Richmond get asked for the same thing. I guess its just that different places require different things. Just like the military, you can never delete anything from the regulation, but you can always add to it...

MTT TL · February 6, 2010, 09:59 PM

I have purchased at Greentop with just orders and ID. They might have suspected something (rightly or wrongly).

armoredman · February 6, 2010, 10:04 PM

I used to store a few personal weapons in the ships armory - that was 20 years ago, and the ship has been scrapped since then.

Should have seen when I brought the Uzi on board...

BGutzman · February 6, 2010, 11:01 PM

Be prepare for your command to mandate that it is locked in the arms room and only available to you with your commanders permission.

Some commanders may grant you the ability to keep it in the barracks but I personally never met one that would in my 21 years....

triggerhappy2006 · February 6, 2010, 11:30 PM

Actually I am in the Marine Corps going to Camp Lejeune and I have a buddy who has a house in Jacksonville NC. Second, you cannot keep them in you barracks room without the CO's authorization, but if you have a CCW for that state you MAY keep it in your car, also if it is kept in the armory you may get it whenever you want as long as the armory is open. This is what I have been told by several instructors/cadre from the unit I will be at, the MOS I am in is VERY VERY small so the instructors/cadre have a very extensive knowledge of the unit I will be at.

blume357 · February 7, 2010, 07:20 AM

triggerhappy2006,

thank you for your service and good luck on your collection. Sounds to me like you have it under control. The only problem is buying a pistol either through a dealer or even face to face in N.C. requires a permit from the local sheriff. A very out dated draconian (Jim Crowe) law. I don't know how you get around this in the Military, but I'll bet some of the 'older' guys at your station will know... it may not even be a problem.

MadHatter1 · February 7, 2010, 09:58 AM

The easiest way "around" the purchace permit is to get a CCW permit. Then no purchace permit is required. Each sheriff can set his own requirements on obtaining purchace permits. One county I know of only issues one every 30 days, and requires 3 LEO referances. Another will give you up to 5 a day.... it all depends on the sheriff.
Another consideration is whatever policies Camp Lejune has in place. Military commanders can make whatever rules they want. There may be restrictions on storage or registration requirements. For example, at FT Bragg, if you're using a MIL ID, you have to have a document from the MPs office, signed by your unit-level commander. The county ( Cumberland) won't issue the purchace permit without it; they have an "understanding" with the military.

MTT TL · February 7, 2010, 01:10 PM

I think Ft. Bragg was the biggest PIA to buy a pistol. That was almost 20 years ago. I did not live in the barracks and you could not store one in the barracks. One commander would not even sign the paperwork for soldiers if they lived in the barracks. A CHL would be a good way to conduct an end run. I don't think it is worth it to store a gun in the barracks though. You get popped during an inspection and you could face some serious UCMJ if the commander is an anti.

February 6, 2010, 11:05 AM	#1
triggerhappy2006 Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2006 Posts: 452	Military Pistol Purchase? I am currently at A-school but I will soon be at my permanent duty station and I will be looking to build my pistol collection. Now I know under federal law you CANNOT purchase a pistol in a state you are not a resident in, but seeing as how I am stationed in Florida now and soon to be moving on, am I exempt from this law seeing as I am LIVING in the state as a military member?

February 6, 2010, 11:26 AM	#2
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	You are considered a resident of whatever state your orders assign you to. It the case of a naval vessel, you are a resident of the state the ship is home ported in. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

February 6, 2010, 12:41 PM	#3
zoomie Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Location: GA Posts: 1,864	To add to what Hkmp5sd said, just take your PCS orders and IDs in with you and you'll get the same treatment as a local (that is: if they have a waiting period or other such nonsense, you probably do, too). TDY orders do not count, and that's probably what your school orders are. Last edited by zoomie; February 6, 2010 at 05:04 PM.

February 6, 2010, 03:13 PM	#5
Aaron67Camaro Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 14	You have to take a copy of your orders, which HAVE TO BE NOTARIZED! Also your DL and something else that has the same address as your DL. Good luck with your purchase! __________________ "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

February 6, 2010, 07:39 PM	#8
Aaron67Camaro Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 14	A few places around the Tidewater area of VA have asked for orders that had to be notarized, along with your drivers license. I have been required that as well as other friends also. Maybe its just because its a military heavy area. __________________ "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

February 6, 2010, 12:51 PM	#4
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Seeing that you are just in A-school I'm guessing that you are E3 or under. At most commands, unmarried E3 and below are forced to live in gov't housing (either on the ship or on base). If that is your case, building a collection right now might be a little difficult. The Navy tends to frown on keeping your personal firearms on the ship or in the BEQ.

February 6, 2010, 09:00 PM	#9
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	This is what the ATF says: Page 135 of the 2005 Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide: http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, and may satisfy the identification document requirement by presenting his or her military identification card along with official orders showing that his or her permanent duty station is within the State where the licensed premises are located. ATF Rul. 2001-5 Section 921(b) of the GCA provides that a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located. The purchaser's official orders showing that his or her permanent duty station is within the State where the licensed premises are located suffice to establish the purchaser's residence for GCA purposes. In combination with a military identification card, such orders will satisfy the Brady Act's requirement for an identification document, even though the purchaser may actually reside in a home that is not located on the military base. Held further, a purchaser who is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, and may satisfy the identification document requirement by presenting his or her military identification card along with official orders showing that his or her permanent duty station is located within the State where the licensed premises are located. ATF Ruling 79-7, ATFQB 79-1, 26, is hereby superseded. Date signed: December 31, 2001 Anything beyond a copy of orders and the military ID card is a requirement the FFL has, not a requirement placed by the ATF.

February 6, 2010, 09:37 PM	#11
Aaron67Camaro Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 14	I know for a fact at Bass Pro Shops. Also saw a guy at Green Top in Richmond get asked for the same thing. I guess its just that different places require different things. Just like the military, you can never delete anything from the regulation, but you can always add to it... __________________ "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

February 6, 2010, 09:59 PM	#12
MTT TL Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2009 Location: Quadling Country Posts: 2,780	I have purchased at Greentop with just orders and ID. They might have suspected something (rightly or wrongly). __________________ Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.

February 6, 2010, 10:04 PM	#13
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,299	I used to store a few personal weapons in the ships armory - that was 20 years ago, and the ship has been scrapped since then. Should have seen when I brought the Uzi on board...

February 6, 2010, 11:01 PM	#14
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	Be prepare for your command to mandate that it is locked in the arms room and only available to you with your commanders permission. Some commanders may grant you the ability to keep it in the barracks but I personally never met one that would in my 21 years.... __________________ Molon Labe

February 6, 2010, 11:30 PM	#15
triggerhappy2006 Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2006 Posts: 452	Actually I am in the Marine Corps going to Camp Lejeune and I have a buddy who has a house in Jacksonville NC. Second, you cannot keep them in you barracks room without the CO's authorization, but if you have a CCW for that state you MAY keep it in your car, also if it is kept in the armory you may get it whenever you want as long as the armory is open. This is what I have been told by several instructors/cadre from the unit I will be at, the MOS I am in is VERY VERY small so the instructors/cadre have a very extensive knowledge of the unit I will be at.

February 7, 2010, 07:20 AM	#16
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	triggerhappy2006, thank you for your service and good luck on your collection. Sounds to me like you have it under control. The only problem is buying a pistol either through a dealer or even face to face in N.C. requires a permit from the local sheriff. A very out dated draconian (Jim Crowe) law. I don't know how you get around this in the Military, but I'll bet some of the 'older' guys at your station will know... it may not even be a problem.

February 7, 2010, 09:58 AM	#17
MadHatter1 Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2010 Posts: 151	The easiest way "around" the purchace permit is to get a CCW permit. Then no purchace permit is required. Each sheriff can set his own requirements on obtaining purchace permits. One county I know of only issues one every 30 days, and requires 3 LEO referances. Another will give you up to 5 a day.... it all depends on the sheriff. Another consideration is whatever policies Camp Lejune has in place. Military commanders can make whatever rules they want. There may be restrictions on storage or registration requirements. For example, at FT Bragg, if you're using a MIL ID, you have to have a document from the MPs office, signed by your unit-level commander. The county ( Cumberland) won't issue the purchace permit without it; they have an "understanding" with the military.

February 7, 2010, 01:10 PM	#18
MTT TL Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2009 Location: Quadling Country Posts: 2,780	I think Ft. Bragg was the biggest PIA to buy a pistol. That was almost 20 years ago. I did not live in the barracks and you could not store one in the barracks. One commander would not even sign the paperwork for soldiers if they lived in the barracks. A CHL would be a good way to conduct an end run. I don't think it is worth it to store a gun in the barracks though. You get popped during an inspection and you could face some serious UCMJ if the commander is an anti. __________________ Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.