What Powder Do You Use?

joelberg · April 14, 2009, 11:12 PM

I'm a Black Powder Newby. I just ordered an 1858 Buffalo .44 Brass Frame cap and ball revolver and I can't wait to put some rounds through her. The reason for this thread is that I wanted to be sure to pick up the best powder to shoot with.

I realize there's a variety out there and that a lot of it is advertised as "non-corrosive", so my question is What do you use?

I've heard a few good things about Pyrodex P. I've been told to stay away from the "classic" black powder as it will erode my barrel and be a pain to clean.

How hot should I make my loads? A friend told me that 20~30 grain loads would be good, but I read online from someone who made his loads as hot as 70 grains for this gun! I'm wary of running super hot loads as I realize this is just a brass frame gun and I don't want to hurt her.

I ordered the gun from Cabela's and it comes with 30 round balls size .454, should I continue to use this size ball? Any brand preferences?

I've also been told to use a few different kinds of lubricants such as Crisco and Cabela's brand, but a few folks have told me not to even bother at all.

Thanks in advance guys I can't wait to get into BP Cowboy shooting!

bejay · April 15, 2009, 12:09 AM

I use pyrodex p and consider it one of the better subsitutes if you have to use one, both blackpowder and the subsitutes will damage your barrel if you dont clean well after shooting. so dont let that keep you from trying blackpowder.
would stick with light loads to avoid damaging the frame unsure of the specs for your model but suspect around 20 grains would probably be a light load for it.
would use lube over the ball or a lubed wad.

oldmaster111 · April 15, 2009, 12:09 AM

Ok, I'll try to help.
!.Pyrodex P is good in your revolver. Real black powder is harder to get but is easy to clean up with hot soapy water. Anyway, Pyrodex is good.
2. With a brass framed revolver, stay below 26 grains unless you want to shake your new gun loose.
3. I prefer .451 round balls in my 44's but .454 is ok
4. You would be better off with Ox Yoke wonder wads in 44 cal. between your powder and your ball and skip the grease.
5. Wear safety glasses and have a great time. When those old style guns get in your blood, you'll be hooked just like many of us. Real black powder makes it even worse. We're like junkies, looking for 60 grains of goex to satisfy our needs.

mykeal · April 15, 2009, 06:18 AM

Quote:

I've been told to stay away from the "classic" black powder as it will erode my barrel and be a pain to clean.

Welcome to the forum. There are many 'experts' out there; some are well versed in the black powder arts and others are simply rumor mongers. The person who gave you the advice above is one of the latter - I'd be very skeptical of any advice he offers; the people who have responded on the forum so far are the former and have given you the right advice.

CaptainCrossman · April 15, 2009, 06:24 AM

I use pyrodex and FFF black. The pyro shoots cleaner and seems to have more velocity and power, and kicks more.

simonkenton · April 15, 2009, 06:32 AM

The only black powder sub that is supposedly non corrosive is Blackhorn 209, and it won't shoot in the cap and ball revolver.
All the powders will eat up your barrel if not cleaned properly.

I use Goex fffg black powder.

bobn · April 15, 2009, 06:33 AM

i dont like substitutes. every load seems different. you can get black powder shipped to you direct. bobn

madcratebuilder · April 15, 2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

How hot should I make my loads? A friend told me that 20~30 grain loads would be good, but I read online from someone who made his loads as hot as 70 grains for this gun! I'm wary of running super hot loads as I realize this is just a brass frame gun and I don't want to hurt her.

With the brass frame I would start with a 20-22 gr load and would not go higher than 28gr. My 44 Buffalo shoots good with 25gr load and a 454 rb.

Quote:

I ordered the gun from Cabela's and it comes with 30 round balls size .454, should I continue to use this size ball? Any brand preferences?

If the 454 shaves a complete ring when seating then it's fine.

Quote:

I've also been told to use a few different kinds of lubricants such as Crisco and Cabela's brand, but a few folks have told me not to even bother at all.

If you shave a good ring when you seat the ball then you have sealed the chamber and a lube is not needed. Adding a lube is additional protection from crossfires, plus lube keeps the fouling soft and makes the revolver easier to clean. Do a search on 'grease cookie' here and you well get more info.

B.L.E. · April 15, 2009, 07:10 AM

I have shot at muzzleloading matches for many years, in fact I'm going to one this weekend, (shotgun trap and skeet) and most of the long time competitors prefer real black powder, in fact, you can't run fast enough to give some of them any of the substitutes.

Black powder leaves a lot of fouling in the barrel but it's easy to clean up, it almost rinses off with water.
It only erodes the barrel if you don't clean it up after you are through shooting. Most of the substitutes will rust your gun as well.

The biggest problem with real black powder is that it may be hard to find. For some reason, it is in a higher catagory of exposives than the substitutes and smokeless powder are and that means it needs to be stored in a special powder magazine and a lot of retailers just don't want to go through the bother.

ClemBert · April 15, 2009, 08:56 AM

First...the obvious remark: Did your C&B come with instructions? If so, read the instructions in reference to the recommended powder and ball load.

For powder, I use Hodgdon 777. "They" say that real BP is the best thing to use and I believe "them". But for many, real BP is hard to find or is expensive compared to alternatives. I just happen to use 777 because it is the best "bang" for the buck relative to the cost of real BP in my area. I use lubricated felt wads between the powder and ball. I find that lube over the ball is just messy and doesn't really save all that much money. Why skimp on the low cost of easy to use felt wads and put up with the headache and mess of lube?

Smokin_Gun · April 15, 2009, 09:47 AM

One example Black Powder 5/lb to 50/lb orders...
http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/index.html

All prices include Hazmat fees ...

longranger · April 15, 2009, 09:57 AM

Graf and Sons sells Schuetzen powder $11.99 pound Goex $11.99 pound,Goex Express $19.98 pound/Swiss $19.98 pound.$20.00 Haz Mat fee.Pyrodex,777 $25.00 pound.
Substitutes are not better, shoot what you like.

mykeal · April 15, 2009, 12:35 PM

I suppose it's time to publish these charts again:

Sorted by supplier:

Sorted by brand of powder:

Didnt' find any Goex Express or Schuetzen on Graf's site....

Hawg · April 15, 2009, 12:46 PM

I can't justify buying bp online. Money is just too tight to have to buy that much at one time. 100 bucks may not be much to most of you but it is to me.
I use Pyrodex. It's consistent and easy to clean. Neither Pyrodex or real bp are as corrosive as most people think. You can wait a day or three after shooting to clean. It's not going to rust. Don't let it sit for a month tho or you'll regret it.

Fingers McGee · April 15, 2009, 03:48 PM

The only powder that should ever be used in a brass framed 1858 Buffalo C&B revolver is manufactured by little elves deep in the forest using unicorn urine, charcoal from burning magical beanstalk branches, sulfer dug from the tailings of an old extinct volcano, and evian water. Granulation is determined by screening through vestal virgin veils (say that five times real quick).

If you are unable to locate any of this rare and costly powder though; pretty much what everyone else has said will work too.

Personally I prefer fffg Goex or Scheutzen.

FM

simonkenton · April 15, 2009, 04:13 PM

How hot should I make my loads? A friend told me that 20~30 grain loads would be good, but I read online from someone who made his loads as hot as 70 grains for this gun! I'm wary of running super hot loads as I realize this is just a brass frame gun and I don't want to hurt her.

Your gun won't hold anywhere near 70 grains of powder.
More like 35 grains tops.
You are lucky you got onto this forum where you are getting the straight scoop.

longranger · April 15, 2009, 04:20 PM

Mykeal,
The Graf and Sons label is Schuetzen repackaged.The list you posted is a little misleading as the Haz Mat fee is $20.00 for up to 50lbs not ea. pound.

And Graf and Sons does list Goex Express@ 19.95 a pound same as Swiss.Even if you deduct the Haz Mat prices from your list regular Goex is only 13.99 not nearly $20.00 as you listed.

long rider · April 15, 2009, 04:38 PM

HEY fingers now thats funny.

IM with you on the goex and scheutzen and swiss,
if you shoot bp then shoot bp, not sub, life to short
these days to cut corners.

thats bound to stir the pot.

joelberg · April 15, 2009, 06:26 PM

Thanks for all of the great suggestions! I'm probably just going to stop by the gun shop tomorrow and see what powder they've got that's least expensive as it seems that everyone is happy with a variety of different powders. If their prices seem too high, then I'll just order some online.

Are there any suggestions on what powder NOT to use?

UPS says my delivery will arrive tomorrow, I can't wait to get started with BP C&B!!!

long rider · April 15, 2009, 06:33 PM

YEP dont waste your cash on jim shocklys gold,its
not a good sub. try for real bp, if not then pyodex
is about the best sub.

Smokin_Gun · April 15, 2009, 07:46 PM

Yeah stay away from Triple Se7en or read up on it first...

long rider · April 15, 2009, 08:12 PM

And what smokin gun said.

grymster2007 · April 15, 2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

vestal virgin veils (say that five times real quick)

Just got back from the clinic (gettin' my lips untangled)

and, while I've only shot Pyrodex and real black, I wouldn't think twice about shooting the rest of them. Bearing in mind of course, that 777 is a tad more powerful by volume.

pappy177 · April 15, 2009, 09:36 PM

I have always made my own until recently trying out Triple Se7en.
That stuff you must be careful with.

long rider · April 15, 2009, 09:44 PM

Why would you want to spend big bucks on sub
when you can make your owen bp? as i recall
you are the expert on makeing your owen.

April 14, 2009, 11:12 PM	#1
joelberg Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 41	What Powder Do You Use? I'm a Black Powder Newby. I just ordered an 1858 Buffalo .44 Brass Frame cap and ball revolver and I can't wait to put some rounds through her. The reason for this thread is that I wanted to be sure to pick up the best powder to shoot with. I realize there's a variety out there and that a lot of it is advertised as "non-corrosive", so my question is What do you use? I've heard a few good things about Pyrodex P. I've been told to stay away from the "classic" black powder as it will erode my barrel and be a pain to clean. How hot should I make my loads? A friend told me that 20~30 grain loads would be good, but I read online from someone who made his loads as hot as 70 grains for this gun! I'm wary of running super hot loads as I realize this is just a brass frame gun and I don't want to hurt her. I ordered the gun from Cabela's and it comes with 30 round balls size .454, should I continue to use this size ball? Any brand preferences? I've also been told to use a few different kinds of lubricants such as Crisco and Cabela's brand, but a few folks have told me not to even bother at all. Thanks in advance guys I can't wait to get into BP Cowboy shooting!

April 15, 2009, 09:47 AM	#11
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	BP Hard to find? One example Black Powder 5/lb to 50/lb orders... http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/index.html All prices include Hazmat fees ... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php Last edited by Smokin_Gun; April 15, 2009 at 09:58 AM.

April 15, 2009, 03:48 PM	#15
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	The only powder that should ever be used in a brass framed 1858 Buffalo C&B revolver is manufactured by little elves deep in the forest using unicorn urine, charcoal from burning magical beanstalk branches, sulfer dug from the tailings of an old extinct volcano, and evian water. Granulation is determined by screening through vestal virgin veils (say that five times real quick). If you are unable to locate any of this rare and costly powder though; pretty much what everyone else has said will work too. Personally I prefer fffg Goex or Scheutzen. FM __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

April 15, 2009, 04:20 PM	#17
longranger Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2008 Location: Buffalo WY Posts: 1,056	Mykeal, The Graf and Sons label is Schuetzen repackaged.The list you posted is a little misleading as the Haz Mat fee is $20.00 for up to 50lbs not ea. pound.And Graf and Sons does list Goex Express@ 19.95 a pound same as Swiss.Even if you deduct the Haz Mat prices from your list regular Goex is only 13.99 not nearly $20.00 as you listed. Last edited by longranger; April 15, 2009 at 04:27 PM.

April 15, 2009, 04:38 PM	#18
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	HEY fingers now thats funny. IM with you on the goex and scheutzen and swiss, if you shoot bp then shoot bp, not sub, life to short these days to cut corners. thats bound to stir the pot. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

April 15, 2009, 12:09 AM	#2
bejay Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2008 Posts: 195	I use pyrodex p and consider it one of the better subsitutes if you have to use one, both blackpowder and the subsitutes will damage your barrel if you dont clean well after shooting. so dont let that keep you from trying blackpowder. would stick with light loads to avoid damaging the frame unsure of the specs for your model but suspect around 20 grains would probably be a light load for it. would use lube over the ball or a lubed wad.

April 15, 2009, 12:09 AM	#3
oldmaster111 Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2006 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 199	Ok, I'll try to help. !.Pyrodex P is good in your revolver. Real black powder is harder to get but is easy to clean up with hot soapy water. Anyway, Pyrodex is good. 2. With a brass framed revolver, stay below 26 grains unless you want to shake your new gun loose. 3. I prefer .451 round balls in my 44's but .454 is ok 4. You would be better off with Ox Yoke wonder wads in 44 cal. between your powder and your ball and skip the grease. 5. Wear safety glasses and have a great time. When those old style guns get in your blood, you'll be hooked just like many of us. Real black powder makes it even worse. We're like junkies, looking for 60 grains of goex to satisfy our needs.

April 15, 2009, 06:24 AM	#5
CaptainCrossman Junior member Join Date: April 2, 2009 Posts: 381	I use pyrodex and FFF black. The pyro shoots cleaner and seems to have more velocity and power, and kicks more.

April 15, 2009, 06:32 AM	#6
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	The only black powder sub that is supposedly non corrosive is Blackhorn 209, and it won't shoot in the cap and ball revolver. All the powders will eat up your barrel if not cleaned properly. I use Goex fffg black powder.

April 15, 2009, 06:33 AM	#7
bobn Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2006 Location: midwest Posts: 1,105	i dont like substitutes. every load seems different. you can get black powder shipped to you direct. bobn

April 15, 2009, 07:10 AM	#9
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	I have shot at muzzleloading matches for many years, in fact I'm going to one this weekend, (shotgun trap and skeet) and most of the long time competitors prefer real black powder, in fact, you can't run fast enough to give some of them any of the substitutes. Black powder leaves a lot of fouling in the barrel but it's easy to clean up, it almost rinses off with water. It only erodes the barrel if you don't clean it up after you are through shooting. Most of the substitutes will rust your gun as well. The biggest problem with real black powder is that it may be hard to find. For some reason, it is in a higher catagory of exposives than the substitutes and smokeless powder are and that means it needs to be stored in a special powder magazine and a lot of retailers just don't want to go through the bother.

April 15, 2009, 08:56 AM	#10
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	First...the obvious remark: Did your C&B come with instructions? If so, read the instructions in reference to the recommended powder and ball load. For powder, I use Hodgdon 777. "They" say that real BP is the best thing to use and I believe "them". But for many, real BP is hard to find or is expensive compared to alternatives. I just happen to use 777 because it is the best "bang" for the buck relative to the cost of real BP in my area. I use lubricated felt wads between the powder and ball. I find that lube over the ball is just messy and doesn't really save all that much money. Why skimp on the low cost of easy to use felt wads and put up with the headache and mess of lube?

April 15, 2009, 09:57 AM	#12
longranger Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2008 Location: Buffalo WY Posts: 1,056	Graf and Sons sells Schuetzen powder $11.99 pound Goex $11.99 pound,Goex Express $19.98 pound/Swiss $19.98 pound.$20.00 Haz Mat fee.Pyrodex,777 $25.00 pound. Substitutes are not better, shoot what you like.

April 15, 2009, 12:35 PM	#13
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	I suppose it's time to publish these charts again: Sorted by supplier: Sorted by brand of powder: Didnt' find any Goex Express or Schuetzen on Graf's site....

April 15, 2009, 12:46 PM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	I can't justify buying bp online. Money is just too tight to have to buy that much at one time. 100 bucks may not be much to most of you but it is to me. I use Pyrodex. It's consistent and easy to clean. Neither Pyrodex or real bp are as corrosive as most people think. You can wait a day or three after shooting to clean. It's not going to rust. Don't let it sit for a month tho or you'll regret it.

April 15, 2009, 04:13 PM	#16
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	How hot should I make my loads? A friend told me that 20~30 grain loads would be good, but I read online from someone who made his loads as hot as 70 grains for this gun! I'm wary of running super hot loads as I realize this is just a brass frame gun and I don't want to hurt her. Your gun won't hold anywhere near 70 grains of powder. More like 35 grains tops. You are lucky you got onto this forum where you are getting the straight scoop.

April 15, 2009, 06:26 PM	#19
joelberg Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 41	Thanks for all of the great suggestions! I'm probably just going to stop by the gun shop tomorrow and see what powder they've got that's least expensive as it seems that everyone is happy with a variety of different powders. If their prices seem too high, then I'll just order some online. Are there any suggestions on what powder NOT to use? UPS says my delivery will arrive tomorrow, I can't wait to get started with BP C&B!!!

April 15, 2009, 06:33 PM	#20
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	YEP dont waste your cash on jim shocklys gold,its not a good sub. try for real bp, if not then pyodex is about the best sub. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

April 15, 2009, 07:46 PM	#21
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Yeah stay away from Triple Se7en or read up on it first... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

April 15, 2009, 08:12 PM	#22
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	And what smokin gun said. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

April 15, 2009, 09:36 PM	#24
pappy177 Member Join Date: March 14, 2009 Location: port richey florida Posts: 46	I have always made my own until recently trying out Triple Se7en. That stuff you must be careful with.

April 15, 2009, 09:44 PM	#25
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	Why would you want to spend big bucks on sub when you can make your owen bp? as i recall you are the expert on makeing your owen. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.