Using 45 colt bullet in 45 automatic

[Plaz]

45 colt molds for 45 automatic pistols

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I am new at this.

I own a sig 45 automatic 220 pistol for which I set out to buy a bullet mold.

I looked at the Lyman molds and instead of buying one listed in the 45 automatic column I bought one listed in the 45 colt column. I bought a Lyman mold # 454190 which is a 250 grain 454 inch diameter mold. I sized it down to a 452 inches 250 grain bullet.

A little late I am now asking the question. Is this sized bullet OK to use in my 45 caliber Sig 220 automatic pistol even though its mold was not listed in the 45 automatic column?

I can't seem to find a recipe for it?

[Ozzieman]

The reason you’re not going to find a load for that bullet is that it’s just too heavy.
Top loads for the 45 ACP in all books and web information that I have, give only those loads up to 230 GR.
The other problem is shape and length. If it’s a semi wad cutter you’re going to have feeding problems and to get the correct maximum COL for 45 ACP that does not leave much room for powder.
My suggestion is to send it back and get a die that IS made for ACP

[Jim243]

return the mold if you can or buy a six shooter in 45 Colt.

Jim

[RWNielsen]

buy a six shooter in 45 Colt.

[Loader9]

Considering you have sized it to .452, you can use it regarding the bullet weight. The profile might not work though. The flat area on the front looks to be rather large. The Lee Manual shows data for a 250 gr lead bullet using Accurate powders although I found no data at the Accurate website.
ACC#2- 4.7 grs- 5.2 grs =783'ps
ACC#5- 7.2 grs- 7.1 grs =820'ps
ACC#7- 8.6 grs- 9.5 grs =832'ps
ACC#9- 10.8 gr- 12.0 gr =870'ps

Solo 1000- 3.8 grs- 4.2 grs =783'ps

All loads shown are OAL 1.260

[Ozzieman]

If this was a contest for best answer,,,,, Jim243 wins.
"buy a six shooter in 45 Colt"

I just may try this on my wife,,,,,

[Lost Sheep]

Plaz, thanks for asking our advice.

Ozzieman is partly right.

The nose shape might give feeding problems. But some feed ramps are more forgiving of bullet nose/ogive shape than others. All my 1911s feed every shape bullet I have ever tried. Round nose is the classic nose shape that gives the least feeding problems over a wide variety of guns. I have recently traded a few hundred round nose bullets to a friend of mine whose Springfield 45 ACP has problems cycling the semi-wadcutters he loaded. Your Sig may run just fine.

(Side notes: We sometimes load together and I introduced him to loading, so I trust his handloads. The cycling problems he has are not related to the feeding, but the ejecting of the empties. The empty cartridge case being ejected stops agains the semi-wadcutter's shoulder. I keep telling him it is the magazine's feed lips, and a slight re-shaping would fix the problem, but he is reluctant to do that. So avoiding SWC is simpler and more certain.)

230 Grains is the standard load for 45 ACP military hardball, specified when the U.S. Army adopted the round and the 1911 pistol in the early 1900s. With the more modern metals used in guns today, your Sig should handle the bullets and pressure just fine. Your gun is rated for +p, I think, isn't it? You may be pushing a performance envelope a little bit more than most neophytes, but if you are casting your own slugs, you are probably not a complete newby. Just figure out what the volume underneath the loaded round is (compared to the standard 230 grain roundnose hardball) and if it is much smaller, consider reducing the load a bit more, down to the minimum load published in your manuals. What powder are you planning to use?

Lost Sheep

[Plaz]

I prefer to use W231 powder but if necessary I have Unique powder that I can use.

[csmsss]

My concern would be the bullet length and whether you could seat the bullet deeply enough to get down to the right OAL without raising pressure levels too high.

[rjrivero]

If you're interested in selling your mold, let me know. Best of luck.

RJ

[Plaz]

Quote:return the mold if you can or buy a six shooter in 45 Colt.

OK You all convinced me.
I would likle to buy the Ruger 45 colt Bisley Vaquero revolver but what I have read in various forums about a Ruger gun has confused the heck out of me.

I hear things like there are differences between old vaqueros and new vaqueros, and preferences for old blackhawks versus new blackhawks. Blackhawks are better than Vaqueros, grab the Blackhawk. Vaqueros are great but you have to know what your buying. Also something about using only Ruger loads. How can I determine what is the best gun with conflicting inputs like that crowding the problem.

I sure would appreciate some simplified expert opinions on the best gun I should buy and why? Remember I would like to buy a good version of the Ruger Bisley Vaquero. If the Blackhawk is a better gun then tell me which version I should pursue.

Thank you all very much.

[mehavey]

Since you've already got (and apparently used) the mould, giving it back is not an option. That said, try it out.

The 250gr 454190 is only 8% heavier than 230gr and there's actually some question that it might even be slightly shorter
than similar jacketed 230 FMJs as it's all lead. [230/SpeerTMJ ~ 0.651", while the 250/#454190 ~.635". Go figure.]
And the ACP/1911 design is very forgiving as long as you stay reasonably in the swim lanes.

Max OAL will be 1.27". See if that covers the grease grooves

Charges will be similar to/tad lighter than the 230 Round Nose. Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbooks list those as 5.5 - 7.3gr Unique,
which tops out way too hot for me even if in the manual. QuickLoad would say no higher than 6.5gr Unique and I'd start
at 5.5gr and work up.

As far as the blunt nose... if it feeds, it feeds. Good luck !

[Lost Sheep]

Originally Posted by Plaz

I would likle to buy the Ruger 45 colt Bisley Vaquero revolver but what I have read in various forums about a Ruger gun has confused the heck out of me.

I hear things like there are differences between old vaqueros and new vaqueros, and preferences for old blackhawks versus new blackhawks. Blackhawks are better than Vaqueros, grab the Blackhawk. Vaqueros are great but you have to know what your buying. Also something about using only Ruger loads. How can I determine what is the best gun with conflicting inputs like that crowding the problem.

I sure would appreciate some simplified expert opinions on the best gun I should buy and why? Remember I would like to buy a good version of the Ruger Bisley Vaquero. If the Blackhawk is a better gun then tell me which version I should pursue.

Thank you all very much.

OK, here's the information I have, all second hand, so verify it before acting on it. Having given that warning, I do believe it all to be true.

Old Blackhawks do not have a transfer bar between the face of the hammer and the rest of the firing mechanism. With the hammer lowered on a live round, a blow to the hammer spur (either by dropping the gun or dropping something on the gun) can set off the round. This is just like single action "western" style revolvers have been since their invention and is why most users carry one chamber empty (or with an expended casing) under the hammer.

New Model Blackhawks have a transfer bar that makes that sort of unintended discharge impossible (or at least vanishingly improbable).

Vaqueros are all of the new pattern with the transfer bar. (I have not personally checked this assertion.)

New Vaqueros are built on a lighter frame than the Vaqueros and are not intended for the high pressure 45 Colt loadings commonly called "Ruger Only".

By the way, the "Ruger Only" name is a misnomer, as T/C Contender, Colt Anaconda, Freedom Arms, BFR and Magnum Research guns also can handle the heavy loads. But the New Vaquero cannot.

Ruger voluntarily will convert Old Blackhawks to the transfer bar system at no charge and will even return the original parts to the owner. Ruger enthusiasts are divided about whether this is a good thing or not. The converted guns are SAID by some to not have as good a trigger feel as before. For myself, I like not having to be always concerned about where the empty chamber is in my 6-hole 5-shooter. I would rather have a the simplicity of 6 shots in six chambers, and deal with any imaginary or minimal degradation of trigger feel.

Many of the Blackhawks (I am not sure about the Vaqueros, old or new) chambered for 45 Colt are sold with a 45 ACP cylinder. (And .357 Magnums with a 9mm Cylinder). If I were you, I would find one of those since you will be supplying yourself with both chamberings.

I hope that answers your questions. If not, Rugerforum.com or Rugerforum.net are two forums which have a LOT of VERY knowledgeable people on them. I visit both regularly.

I THINK the Bisley designation has more to do with the grip shape than anything else, but am unsure about this.

Lost Sheep