Fighting dirty?

[Rachen]

If I ever get into a fight, it will not be one that I started. Therefore, I will perveive it as an immediate danger and take immediate action.

One word will summarize what will be involved if I cannot get to my firearm: KHANJAR

Or two words: BOWIE KNIFE

These are constantly worn on my belt and easily accessible.

[Jeep Driver]

The only fair fight, is the one you win.

[sigxder]

When fighting for your life their is no dirty fighting. And yes you should get some type of empty handed fighting training. Often you nmay have to fight to get to your gun or prevent a gun grab. And if their is time yes you do adjust to the situation. If a drunk says something smart to you walk away. If you are truly "jumped" then you have no choice. The only way to beat a ruthless criminal is to become more ruthless.
Also if you're carrying gun you are under greater pressure to not fight unless you have to. If you could walk away and the fight goes on and escalates to the point you have to shoot someone you could be in trouble. Even if it got to the point where you were justified to shoot. If you could of walked away or somehow gotten out of the fight you may end up with charges against you.

[Stevie-Ray]

I'd like to think that there is one more good fight left in me but some mornings, I really question that. ......

Same here. I got into many bar scrapes and the like over the years, but nothing that took long enough to declare a winner, thank God. Last time I did anything like that was ten years ago at the age of 45, I broke up a fight on my lawn. Two adult kids, (18-20 or so) well dressed like they were at a party were pummeling hell out of each other, but one getting the best the other as he was on top of him. I yelled for them to break it up, they ignored me. I went down and grabbed the top one by the collar and yanked him off, sending him hard on his ass. He stared up at me stunned. I screamed "I said break it to **** up!" The underdog had taken this opportunity to make a break for it and took off like his pants were on fire. The other one followed a few seconds later looking over his shoulder occasionally. Of course I figured he was getting a good look to retaliate later. Needless to say, I didn't get much sleep that night and spent most of it on the porch. Nothing ever happened. I was actually surprised how easy it was to throw the kid around, though I was easily at the strongest of my life then. My boxing and grappling days were over at that point, but I had been weightlifting pretty much non-stop for over 10 years. This occasion, and the obvious health benefits, have caused me to continue with the workouts to this day. But it's definitely getting tougher.

[bikerbill]

my last fight was in 1966 when a bunch of townies jumped me and several of my zoomie friends in Monterey while we were stationed at the Defense Language Institute ... still got a scar on my thumb where I knocked one of the punk's front teeth out ... those days of course are long gone and I agree with others here; if I'm attacked, at 66 I'm in fear of my life and I will do whatever it takes to keep ticking ... if you are worried about dirty tactics in a street fight, you're already dead ...

[irish52084]

Stevie-Ray, you bring up a great point about physical fitness. You don't have to be out of shape solely due to aging. It may get tougher to do and you may not make big gains, but you can be strong and fit at any age. That extra edge of fitness makes a difference in everything you do. You don't have to be a bodybuilder or string man competitor to be functionally strong and healthy.

Another big part for me is training, both firearms training and hand to hand defense. I like to think my situational awareness is darn good, but things happen and mistakes get made. I know from training that I can come out on top of 99%+ of 1 vs 1 struggles. I also know from training that 2 or more determined attackers are pretty much going to ruin my day and a gun or knife might be my only choice at that point. Then it's a matter of making sure I can get to my gun or knife with someone trying to beat on me or prevent me from getting my weapon.

If you need to gouge eyes, bite or whatever else to save yourself, you need the mentality to just do it and not have to think about it.

[MLeake]

One of the things I find the hardest, with new students at a dojo, is to get them to actually try to hit me.

Most aikido training is done as paired drills. The attacker launches the specified attack, and the defender uses the specified counter. (Note: at higher levels, this becomes less structured - attacker has a choice of attacks, or defender has a choice of counters, or there are multiple attackers, etc - but at basic levels, it's kept simple.)

Problem is, most new people are afraid to throw a real punch. If they miss on purpose, the defender doesn't get to learn how to actually do the counter.

It's not easy to convince them to punch at and through my solar plexus or my face, or to get them to strike at my throat or collar-bone. Most people, even the ones who decide to train, are afraid they'll hurt the other person. It takes work to get them to strike like they mean it.

Probably a good thing they get over that BEFORE something happens outside the dojo.

[Old Wanderer]

MLeake:

You are exactly right. Many years ago when I was instructing, no only did people have a great reluctance to striking, most had never been hit with any force.

One of my students was a very attractive hooker. She had been studying for almost a year at the dojo. One day while training she unloaded 6 very heavy kicks to my mid section. I returned 1 kick about about 50% the force she was using. She collapsed to the ground and started crying and trying to catch her breath. Other than not being prepared to receive a blow, and having some air knocked out of her, there was nothing physically wrong with her. Yet her psychic lost the "fight". She quit training that day, saying I was a monster, a ghoul, and had no respect for women.

You must be willing to accept pain, and know it is only the bodies warning system to keep you from injury. you can choose to respond or ignore it.

The hardest hitting/kicking person I ever encountered was my Sensi. A 135# Chinese man who it seemed like he could just look at you, and it hurt.

[MLeake]

Old Wanderer, that is definitely the other side of the coin. Somehow, there are people who have managed to go through life without ever getting hit, let alone getting cut or breaking a bone.

I've been knocked out twice, if only momentarily. Walked into a straight right, right between the eyebrows, and found myself on my back for a few seconds. The other involved a wrestling match, the other guy's stellar Navy takedown, and my own knee hitting me in the eye socket...

Otherwise, I have taken a lot of hits that hurt, or took out my wind, but none that I couldn't fight through. (This is not to say I won all the time, just that I kept trying.)

Before I had ever taken a real punch, I was afraid to get hit. Now, I don't worry about it so much, but in all honesty I tend to relax more AFTER I've been hit a time or two - it reminds me that most can be shrugged off.

[irish52084]

MLeake, Your story of being knocked out reminded me of the only time I've been knocked out. I was a teenager and attempting to dunk a basketball 2 handed when my momentum carried my body out from underneath me and I landed on the concrete. Bounced my head off the ground and woke up a few seconds later.

I never seem to get hurt with a manly story behind it. I tore my MCL basically sitting on the couch. Dislocated my shoulder and tore my labrum doing bench press warm-ups. Tore my MCL again by using butterfly guard in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Sprained my ankle pretty bad bowling and somehow managed to get a strike out of it., I'm a terrible bowler if that wasn't an indication already.

I've been really lucky with broken bones too, never had a break.

As far as getting hit and how it affects people, it's all mental to me. Once I'm in that mode of conflict or training it doesn't seem to hurt as bad as it does when I don't expect it. I've managed to get kicked square in the head twice when I wasn't expecting it and both times it hurt like that warm fiery place. Been kneed or kick in the head many times while sparring and it doesn't seem nearly as bad.

[bullethole1]

The way I see it,you gotta do what you gotta do,also for me it depends on how angry i am and how scared i am of my life or my loved ones life or lives the would or are being threatened

[Tengu01]

Love this thread . The saying " if you find yourself in a fair fight , you havn't trained properly " has been pounded ( literaly , at times ) into me while studying Budo Taijutsu . Criminals don't " fight by the rules " , why should we , as respectable citizens ? Do whatever it takes to get home . ALIVE !

[Mr. James]

Originally Posted by Old Wanderer

You are exactly right. Many years ago when I was instructing, no only did people have a great reluctance to striking, most had never been hit with any force.

I have a good friend who insists that what's most ailing our society is that not enough people have been on the receiving end of an incoming fist. Playing rugby for twenty some years, that was never my problem; I've been knocked out so many times it's a wonder I can type these words.

As to the original thread, as just about everyone else here has said, I'm using whatever tactics and tools are at my disposal to take out my attacker as quickly as possible.

And now I have to go out and get a sjambok!

[claymore1500]

Simple words will never bring me to fight, but if I am attacked, my attacker would do well to know two things. One: I do not fear pain, Two: I do not fear death.

He would also do well to keep his head covered, because if I get to it, I'm breaking it off.

I'm 56 years old, 6'4" 240 lbs. I work on heavy trucks 6 days a week and have been known to dead lift over 500 lbs. I can and will hold my own.

[bsheets20061]

if its a matter of life and death there is no fighting dirty or fair fight, my life matters more than the person trying to kill me. Ill do whatever it takes to survive.

[jborushko]

if its a true fight for my life. then its No holds barred. pure and simple i'll use every possible thing at my disposal to gain advantage and keep it. cause the most pain/damage the fastest way.

but lesser degrees of fight warent lesser responces. a bar fight with a drunken fool= take advantage with reasonable levels of pain inflicted

just like anything its all based on degrees of responce.

I'm 56 years old, 6'4" 240 lbs. I work on heavy trucks 6 days a week and have been known to dead lift over 500 lbs. I can and will hold my own.

thats what as know as "old man strenght".... you dont mess around with old man strenght

[BlueTrain]

Not about fighting dirty or not but just about fighting: it is said that a boxer might be the most difficult person to fight hand to hand because a boxer is accustomed to pain and to being hit. That sounds reasonable and believable and I suppose the point is that a lot of people have a low tolerance for pain or more likely, a fear of getting hurt. But I can understand that.

When I was still in grade school and junior high, fighting in the neighborhood where I lived was not an uncommon thing and it didn't attract police attention the way it might today. This is not to say it was a friendly fight, what ever that might be, or anything like that. But a fight nonetheless. You might end up in the hospital like I did once and you may never be able to lick the big guys but you develop a different attitude and a different sense of self as a result of those experiences. I know it sounds a lot like something out of a Norman Rockwell setting with a "you shoulda seen the other guy" kind of results but I almost feel like kids are missing a part of growing up by not having such experiences. I'm not saying any particular outcome is inevitable because sometimes real tragedies can result--and none of this has anything to do with guns. Girls, of course, were totally absent from all of this and would have no idea what I'm talking about and probably a lot of the guys here, too.

I have no idea what the guys were like on the other side of town either.

[40caljustice]

I grew up getting whipped until I was 11 years old. Finally my dad decided to enroll me in a boxing gym. I got around to whipping some of the bully's that whipped me. And I put a better whippin down then they did. When I was younger (teens and early 20's. I'm only 26) I liked getting hit and beat on a little bit. I could take a beating like I could give one. I still attempt to box today but its more to sweat than to learn and strategise.

Alot of folks can't fight for 3 mins. Heck even 1:30 mins. That's alot of time to go full blast. So expect that that person on the other end is fighting dirty also.

I will not fight unless I am or my family is physically assaulted. I have lost my head in the past and could have very well gotten in some trouble but not anymore. I have too much to lose now.

However, if someone is attacking me then I'll do everything in my power to make him regret making such a foolish decision. I will give my all to protect myself and family.

Another thing. I joke and tease with my father and his friends all the time. I jab at them and poke them. Call them old and make comments about gerital and viagra. These fellas know I'm kidding but one day a guy told me this piece of advice. "You better watch how you bully an old man. We have already lived. Most of us are on the way out anyway. We can't scrap. We have to make it as quick as possible so we can save energy to get away." "Life in prison for me is liable to be only a couple months or years." I believe every word this fella told me.

Fighting Dirty = Fighting. I've never heard of clean fighting.

[40caljustice]

Perfectly said BlueTrain. Sometimes I would fight the same guy twice in one day. Or a few times a week. It was something every kid our age went through. We played king of the hill and smear the (guy with the ball). We would rattle each others heads on a daily basis. Alot of us thought it was cool, me included, to win a fight. Now we know its all stupid unless its paying your bills.

If I had of taken the energy I put into smashing knuckles and put it into school, I would be an aerospace engineer working for NASA. I wouldn't wear this blue collar everyday.

[Micahweeks]

If you aren't fighting dirty, you either have no good reason to be fighting or your tactics suck.

[BlueTrain]

Clean and dirty in fighting is pretty much like clean and dirty in language. It's what someone else says it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

What I was trying to say, among other things, about fighting when you're still a schoolboy, is that you have to stand up for yourself and sometimes for others whether or not you have much of a chance of overcoming the other guy. It's apparently a difficult concept to understand for some people and there is a cultural slant to it, at least for adults. Supposedly American Indians might not fight one day because, as my father might have said (in speaking of something altogether different), the signs weren't right. And supposedly other Indians understood and did not think less of them for it. But for some "primative" people, there came a point when they had to go out and prove themselves by doing something like killing a lion with a spear.

I wonder if people like that got into fights among themselves like we do?

[TylerD45ACP]

I havent been in a fight in a while. However my fighting mindset was much like my SD one is now. I want the threat to go away as fast as possible and that involves hitting them as hard and fast in the 'button' (Open Jaw or Nose) FIRST. If you want to get the edge just like in SD you got to hit 1st. You want an immediate incapacitation knockout like SD, unfortunatley, unless its a lined up shot its hard to do. So when people run there mouth and threaten you up close in your face, DROP THEM.

[Mr Dish]

Isn't the goal of a fight to win? If its a matter of life and death who cares how you win?

[Ringolevio]

Mr. James:

I have a good friend who insists that what's most ailing our society is that not enough people have been on the receiving end of an incoming fist.

Man, I couldn't agree more! Consider what passes for "leadership" today: I'm thinking of one guy in particular, who loves to talk about "kicking a**" and "knowing whose a** to kick", but take one look at the guy and you can tell that
a) He's never kicked anybody's a**, and
b) He's probably never even had his own a** kicked!

[Deaf Smith]

How hard and dirty are you willing to fight in a street fight?

Now if we are talking fighting for my life, well as dirty as I can!

Kicks to the knees, groin kicks, eye gouges, elbows, thumbs in eyes, palm slapping the ears, throat punches, biting, stomping on feet, knees in groin, any useful object as a weapon, sand/dirt thrown in face, and much much more!

If we are talking about actually accepting an offer to fight, HECK NO!

I've seen plenty of people who got into fights after arguments in a bar and they 'took it outside', and then someone gets knifed. The other one gets manslaughter charge!

No. I fight only if forced to, and then I fight wicked.

Deaf