Scope for .223 XP-100?

[Halfpint]

OK... Here's my dilemma... I've finally gotten a bit of range time with my new `toy' and while I am fairly successful at keeping my shots well within the X-ring with a Millet Red Dot (3moa dot). I don't think that that is the best sight for varmint (Pasture Poodles) shooting. My main problem is eye relief, or actually lack there of, in most `pistol' / `handgun' type scopes. The couple few I've tried were lucky to provide maybe 12" max and it seems that, with most low power scopes at least, that is about the best I've discovered so far. I've been considering trying a couple Burris models but at $400+ to $600+ (And 2-7x32 / 3-12x32 and an *advertised?* eye relief of 10" - 19") and what I know from rifle scopes with variable power I don't want to be stuck with something that all I can use 2X or 3X yet have the complications associated with the `zoom' mechanism. *If* I am going to end with a variable power scope *maybe* 2-4X or 2-5X would be OK. Either way, fixed @ 2X or 3X or variable @ 2-4X or 2-5X I would also like to be able to have an adjustable objective, mainly because of my eyesight more than anything else, and 1/8moa adjustments. While it may seem that I am `worried?' about the cost it is not because whatever I end up may end up costing `beau coup bucks' it's that I don't really like the idea of ending up spending X times `beau coup bucks' to find the one that works and have X-1 `beau coup bucks' worth of scopes basically laying around. I know that an XP-100 is a rather `odd duck' of a `handgun' but, for shooting from a tractor seat or having nestled down securely hidden in a pocket on the back of my truck seat where it can easily be reached if necessary it actually does make sense having one. (Mine has a `heavy 15" barrel w/ muzzlebrake, a custom McMillan stock, and a good Harris BiPod. [Oh, and the trigger is a really nice "Just `think' the shot off." trigger similar to what I've become accustomed to with my DWs.] I posted a pic of it here, and one of the Winchester Model 75s I got at the same time, last fall just after I got it though it didn't have a sight/scope in the rings nor the BiPod mounted at that time.)

[Scorch]

For any handgun, and especially for hunting applications, I recommend no more than 4X unless you are extremely experienced shooting handguns with high magnification scopes. The Burris scopes are very nice and well built. Keep in mind that you want a scope that is designed as a handgun scope, not an extended eye relief (EER) scope designed to be mounted on a rifle. Like this:

http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-s...x28mm-handgun/

I prefer Leupold, but whatever you buy, make sure it is a good quality scope so you don't wind up like a friend of mine: we recently went shooting, and when we limbered up the old scoped 44Mag, no 2 rounds went to the same place twice in a row. I would have said it could have been us, but I had just finished shooting my iron-sighted 44 Mag and putting 5 out of 6 in a 6" bull at 100 yds. He said he wasn't going to buy a $300 scope, he just keeps buying the $120 scopes and sending them back to the factory for service when they break.

[Halfpint]

Originally Posted by Scorch

For any handgun, and especially for hunting applications, I recommend no more than 4X unless you are extremely experienced shooting handguns with high magnification scopes. The Burris scopes are very nice and well built. Keep in mind that you want a scope that is designed as a handgun scope, not an extended eye relief (EER) scope designed to be mounted on a rifle. Like this:

http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-s...x28mm-handgun/

I prefer Leupold, but whatever you buy, make sure it is a good quality scope so you don't wind up like a friend of mine: we recently went shooting, and when we limbered up the old scoped 44Mag, no 2 rounds went to the same place twice in a row. I would have said it could have been us, but I had just finished shooting my iron-sighted 44 Mag and putting 5 out of 6 in a 6" bull at 100 yds. He said he wasn't going to buy a $300 scope, he just keeps buying the $120 scopes and sending them back to the factory for service when they break.

Thank you very much for the reply! I *do* have a question about the available eye-relief of the Leupolds as the couple few *I* have been able to actually see seemed to be a bit `short' or `long' for *me*. In your experience have you found that they may be understating this? (For any of you who may have experience with the Burris products are they possibly `overstating' *their* eye-relief?)

I had already pretty much decided that I didn't want too much magnification because of some previous `playing around' with some other optics in the past. The 2-5X `figure' was something I figured would be an *extreme* that I really wouldn't want to use on a regular basis. It's nice to see that I am on a `correct course'! (I've been using one model of a 6-18X44 Swift rifle scope on my `varmint' rifles for years now and I have never gone much further magnification-wise than about 12X and usually find myself someplace between 8X and 10X the majority of the time with the occasional excursion down to 6X on the `close in' shots.)

I, too, have a friend who likes to try and `scrimp' on his scopes no matter how many problems he has with the `cheapies'. So far he has spent, easily, 3 - 4 times what it would have cost him in the first place to buy a good quality scope on every rifle he has scoped before he finally either breaks down and buys a good scope or he comes up with all sorts of other excuses for his troubles and gets rid of both the rifle and the cheapy scope. Then, to top things off, he turns around and buys another rifle and goes through the whole danged `dance' all over again!

In the case of my XP-100 I *want* to be able to *not* be worrying about my `tools' and only worry about *me*. I have always figured that if one buys quality inheritantly accurate `equipment' then all one has to deal with is the one thing that is the easiest thing to `change' and `improve'. The person behind the sights and trigger! (Yeah, there can be times when there can be problems with the `tool', like having a set of cross-hairs coming `un-hinged', tube or optics getting damaged from carelessness, a `bad' or `improper' batch of ammo, or somesuch `other' `glitch' that can cause problems. But, in my almost 50yrs of shooting, the majority of the `problems' *I* have run across can usually be attributed to `the loose nut behind the trigger'. *Especially* if the `tool' / `gun' and the rest of the `system' has inherent quality and accuracy to begin with.) I cringe when, at a range, I run across someone who comes out to `sight in' their rifle just before the start of hunting season and after doing so proclaims that "they are now ready" yet when asked about how much time they have spent actually shooting they also proclaim that they only do so during hunting season hunting whatever it is they are going hunting for. Quite a few of these yaahoos are enough to make me want to not even bother going out because I don't want to be *anywhere near* to where they are.

I like to shoot for many reasons but, two of the main ones for me are relaxation and improving myself. I've found that I can `un-wind' quite easily by sitting down at a range and `punching holes in paper at long distance' than I can just about any other way. Every time I go out to a range, even if it may not be one of my `best' days, I also find that the next time out I am actually usually shooting better than I've done before. It's like my old piano teacher always used to exhort me, "Practice, practice, and practice some more and you *will* get better. If you don't then you will always only be mediocre at best and horrible at the worst." With firearms this is even more important as far as I am concerned. (My children have always complained about me being such a `slave driver' when we are out on a range. But, the last couple times we have gone varmint hunting *both* of them finally realized that they were pulling off shots they wouldn't have been able to do in the past. One could almost *see* the proverbial `light bulb' light up above their heads and afterwards, on the way back home, they *both* actually thanked me for `driving' them like I have been doing! To me that `thanks' is worth more than all the `riches' of the world!)

[Scorch]

I've been using one model of a 6-18X44 Swift rifle scope on my `varmint' rifles for years now and I have never gone much further magnification-wise than about 12X and usually find myself someplace between 8X and 10X the majority of the time with the occasional excursion down to 6X on the `close in' shots

That's been pretty much my experience too. Over 20 years ago I waited for 6 weeks after ordering a Leupold 6-18X Vari-X-II, and after having it on my rifle for 3 months, I took it off and replaces it with a 4-12X Vari-X-II because the highest power was too much (restricted the field of view too much) and the lowest power wouldn't let me find the closer-in varmints (any closer than 50-60 yds and they were too blurry and out of the field of view if they moved at all).

So far he has spent, easily, 3 - 4 times what it would have cost him in the first place to buy a good quality scope on every rifle he has scoped before he finally either breaks down and buys a good scope or he comes up with all sorts of other excuses for his troubles and gets rid of both the rifle and the cheapy scope

My same friend I went shooting with the other day asked me today if I could get his friend's 300 Weatherby to shoot decently. I told him to bring it to me. I will bet you it has a $80 scope on it.

I like to shoot for many reasons but, two of the main ones for me are relaxation and improving myself.

I have acquaintances who don't understand how I can go to the range all uptight and come home relaxer. They ask if all the noise makes me tense!

Anyway, it sounds like you are on the right track with your scope. Let us know how it works out!

[Halfpint]

First off... Thanks again, Scorch. BTW, I just ran across an old `friend' from *way back when* (College days no less.) who had always tried to get me to participate in whatever `Eastern' `meditative regime' he was currently enthralled by. After his usual `harangue' for his latest `fling' he asked me if I had finally found my own way to `nirvana'. I *really wish* that I'd had some sort of hidden camera to record the series of expressions that flashed across his face when I explained that I had and what it was! Amazingly the very final one was *not* one of hate or fear but rather *complete* and *total* bewilderment. He just could not seem to wrap his mind around the fact that just about everything I do when I am sitting down with a firearm, be it handgun, rifle, or shotgun, was just like what he would do whenever he `meditated' yet I was *shooting*! Oh, well... Kinda interesting to actually be able to see all his fuses and circuit breakers going *piffle!* on him. {CHORTLE!} (Oh, yeah... I *did* invite him to got out to the range sometime for a demonstration. His response was that "He'd have to think about it... *very* hard..." I would be pleasantly surprised *if* he did take me up on my offer, though I am not going to hold my breath waiting. {CHUCKLE!})

OK... So from what I gather my choices, so far, would be products from Leupold and Burris? As they both have good reputations and I am familiar with both because I have representative products from both already I guess my next question to those of you out there in "TFL_Land" would be if anyone knows of someplace in the Loveland, Fort Collins, Greeley Colorado and/or Cheyenne Wyoming area where I might be able to find such items to `fondle' and otherwise check out? (I'll admit that the last *scope* I bought was bought many years ago from the `smith' who was helping me put together my .222 `benchrest'/`varmint' rifle. While I have picked up a few other `sights' for things like my Winchester Model 75s and a couple CZ `trainer' .22s they have been basically `mailorder' affairs because I already knew what I needed and wanted. [Lyman `peep' and `globe' sights.] Another example of `mailorder' shopping, also during that time, were the "dot?" sights for my STG-58 and Saiga shotgun. I'd already been familiar with the Russian `Kobra' sight, I had one for several years prior, and when I got a chance to acquire a couple 2 - 3 I did so. [BTW, they are great sights! While I like how well they are built and the range of illumination adjustment I really appreciate the choices of display they provide. The chevron with dot above it is especially useful with the shotgun and both the dot, alone, and the `open top' crosshairs are nice with the STG-58 and similar rifles.] My last few `highpower?' rifles I've bought between the .222 and now have all come with decent scopes already mounted and I haven't had any problems with them. [A few `quibbles' about the `power', `reticle', or `turrets' the previous owner had selected but none so bad that I couldn't `live' with them for what I bought the rifles for.] Eventually I'll probably end up trading either the whole rifle and scope or maybe just the scope for something else I might find more useful by then. Like I said... They were bought because at that time I had a use in mind and they `filled the bill' without my having to `twiddle' with them.)

However... Back to the `pistol scopes' and ideas of where to find them in the aforementioned area. Because they are so different `eye-relief-wise' I would really like to be able to actually `see' through them instead of `buying a pig in a poke' by buying `mailorder'. The area I've specified is such because it is a *lot* easier for me to get around in. Since I don't drive all that much anymore these days driving in and around the greater metro Denver area is something I just don't do all that well. While the driving conditions up in the mentioned area are starting to get bad they are not as bad as they are down South of me. On top of that, since we *are* trying to move back up to Wyoming in the foreseeable near future, those cities would make for a bit shorter drive if I had to ever go back to wherever I bought the scope from for some reason. (While it would be `ideal' if I could find somplace right around Wheatland, Wyoming I am enough of a `realist?' to realize that since I'd like to get a scope `now' rather than `later' so I could already have at least some `range time' with it and the XP-100 `under my belt' when we do finally get moved I'd better start looking down here. I suspect that it might be a while before I can get my own range eventually built there and I *might* get lucky and have a chance to `exercise' the XP-100 before that Happens!? At least, until the developers finally get around to actually building, I'll still have my range here to get in some practice time.)

Oh, well... Just an `Olde Fart's' 2¢ worth. {VB GRIN!} Thanks, guys, for putting up with it.