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Old December 7, 2008, 07:42 PM   #26
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to sportdog

what jolly roger said is closer to right. If they can disable you you can use deadly force. LEO or not.
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Old December 7, 2008, 08:39 PM   #27
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would I shoot an attacker with a taser...?

Right in the dad-gum eye!!

sorry, i know this isn't the Christmas movie thread, but i couldn't resist.
You are your Primary Defense. Train your Primary Defense.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin
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Old December 7, 2008, 09:55 PM   #28
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This is simular to an example given by Massad Ayoob:
If a BG tries to take your gun out of your holster; he is doing it for one reason and that is to kill you; so deadly force is warrented by you.

If a BG comes at me with a taz or spray; he wants to immobilize me so he can do great bodily harm to me or kill me; I would use deadly force to stop him.

Just be careful its not some darn fool acting like an idiot with no intent to actually do you harm; however; that darn fool just put himself in serious harms way by acting the clown; I would treat the darn fool just as if he pointed a firearm at me.
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Old December 7, 2008, 10:10 PM   #29
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I recall reading a news article on a blog of a idiot kid who went around with an unloaded .22 pistol holding people up and doing scare tactics. He approached a guy at a car wash at night and tried it... The guy quickly pulled out his 9mm pistol moved for cover and fired one shot into the teen's chest. The kid's buddies took of running, the teen was pronounced dead at the scene. The gentleman was checked out, license-permit, and cleared by the police. Later the friend corroborated the gentleman's story and police officially ruled it a defensive action.

Now, sad as it is-- I would rather see it turn out this way than the poor guy get unduly harassed or have legal issues because some damn kid wanted to be all big and bad. I believe the police said even threatening someone with an unloaded gun is a threat of lethal force.

As for someone with a tazer, yes. I would shoot someone wielding a tazer. If I had the time I would first draw and make my ability to defend myself known, if he continued to approach I believe I would fire. The reason being that even though the tazer itself is not lethal, I have on me a lethal weapon and who is to say that when I am incapacitated he does not use it on me OR (worse) use the gun for other crimes. Legally I would not be responsible for his actions but ethically I would know that I had a chance to not allow it.
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Old December 7, 2008, 10:20 PM   #30
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I think dad gum fools give up all benefit of the doubt if they point a weapon at you. Context is everything, if it is a drunk buddy trying to play a misguided prank, that is one thing. If the first time you ever meet the guy, you are staring down the barrel of a weapon, lethal or less lethal, you MUST assume the worst.

WC145, I thought Tazers were good for 21 ft?
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Old December 7, 2008, 10:54 PM   #31
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I find it very interesting that the way of these type threads go. If you are in law enforcement and someone who even dares to move wrong, it is OK and a "good shoot" to drop him on the spot. When a civilian is being assaulted or may be threatened with death, he is supposed to properly assess the intentions of the BG before he can respond with lethel force. I know that I am oversimplifying but the crux of the respondent attitudes bears me out.
Did I say don't shoot if you're being assaulted or threatened with death? No. In fact, if you are being assaulted or threatened to the degree that you actually believe that this person may try and kill you then, by all means, fire away.
Keep in mind that a major difference between you and a LEO facing the same threat is that if you have the time/space/opportunity you can beat feet and escape the threat, a cop has to do something about it. However, one thing is true for everyone, nobody wants to shoot another person unless they have no other choice.

I'm curious - is it your position that the average citizen should know, offhand and in a situation of maximum stress and fear, what the effective range of the tazer is? And, in that moment of extremity, accurately judge the distance between himself and the threat before deciding whether he can defend himself or not? Please.
I'm sure that you and everybody else here has some ability to gauge a threat, even if it is only the difference between "Wow, that guy's nuts, let's leave" and "Holy -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-!!". Pull the trigger when it gets to "Holy -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-!!".

WC145, I thought Tazers were good for 21 ft?
You are probably right, I don't carry one so I'm not that well versed in the specifics. I took advantage of the opportunity to get shocked so that I would know what I might be up against some day.
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Old December 8, 2008, 05:33 AM   #32
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2 COM! Point anything at me that I can deem a dangerous weapon and it is game on! Any thug could hot glue an orange plastic tip on his "9" as well! Don't point things at folks that don't wanna play cops and robbers or cowboys and injuns and your life expectancy soars!
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Old December 8, 2008, 05:55 AM   #33
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yes..i would if i felt it would stop the attacker from doing harm..also depends on how many volts etc. If it was a 14 year old teen trying to mug me with a knife or something..i would just taze him..and not shoot him.
Friend, that 14 year old can cut you six ways from next week before you can even think about it. And never, EVER think that just because a kid is an obvious kid that they won't do you harm.

I've arrested kids that were gang affiliated that were wearing body armor and carrying firearms.

As for the Taser question, a Taser does one thing very well--it will totally lock up your muscles as long as the current is flowing. The only way you will defend against a Taser AFTER you are hit is if you don't get hit with both probes.

Moreover, the only real difference between the X26 LE Taser and the others marketed by the same company is the length of the leads. The LE leads are much longer.

A Taser pointing at you is no joke--it is meant to put you DOWN, RIGHT NOW, and to take you out of the fight. If a person who is not an LEO is pointing a Taser at you, it is not to invite you over for tea and crumpets.
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Old December 8, 2008, 11:57 AM   #34
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Defense Attorney: Mr. Johnston on the night in question why did you feel it necesarry to shoot Mr. Smith 3 times in the chest when Mr. Smith was only pointing a tazer at you, a "less than lethal weapon".

Me: "Well sir, I was in fear for my life. At the time all I saw was a gun shaped object with what I recognized as a laser aiming device being pointed at me. I thought for certain that if I didn't shoot Mr. Smith right then, I would have died.


And that doesn't even get into all the obvious things that can be pointed out about what a person with a taser wants to do to you.
J.M. Johnston
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Old December 8, 2008, 04:26 PM   #35
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If my state would allow it's citizens to carry a tazer I would use it as a first defense.

However in my state (MI) we can only carry pistols not tazers, so my only option is to shoot the sob if it is justified.

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Old December 8, 2008, 09:40 PM   #36
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Now THAT is a "common sense gun law" you cannot use less lethal weapons, only guns you ignorant civilian!
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