No Crappy Gunsmithing Tools

[JonnyP]

I'm looking around for a good basic gunsmithing tool set with a good hammer and punches. Everything I seem to find online has crappy reviews. Seems the hammers fall apart easily and/or the punches are way too soft and bend/deform after a few uses.

Anybody have any advice on a really good set?

I could also use some advice on when to use brass vs steel for the hammer and punches.

Thanks!

Jonny

[brewman]

As I am in Australia I would not try to advise you what brand of dowel punches etc to look for but you should look at some of the engineering type outlets that sell tools for tradesmen they will no doubt be more expensive but should be more of an industrial quality and strength.

I would not use a steel hammer directly on any of my rifles, the only thing a steel hammer should hit are punches or other energy transfer implements.

As far as soft hammers or drifts go stay away from brass as brass can have quite a difference in hardness between grades and is also prone to splintering / flaking and theses tiny pieces can easily get into areas and cause trouble. Copper is by far the best material for soft hammers or drifts.

[NWPilgrim]

I would get the solid/fixed hammers, like one in brass, steel and nylon. I have a Lyman with removable heads and the nylon one busted fairly quickly. Check Brownell's or MidwayUSA.

Only use brass punches for drifting sights and such. Use steel roll pin or drift punches for knocking in/out the steel pins, especially in the very small diameters. Brass is too soft when it is very thin. A nylon punch such as sold for AR15s is handy too.

The ideal set up would be a set of fixed small hammers in brass, steel and Delrin nylon, set of steel roll pin punches, set of steel drift punches, a couple of medium brass punches (no small ones), and Delrin punch. 5/32" is a very common medium size punch.

[Slopemeno]

Most everything you need to buy can be had from Brownells.

Keep in mind, gunsmithing tools like punches take an enormous amount of abuse. I was sorta known in my shop for breaking Starret 1/16" punches, so I got good at taking a broken stub of a 1/16" puch to the grinder and grinding, quenching, grinding, quenching until I had another slightly shorter punch. And yeah, in a gunsmithing shop you'll see someone absentmindedly but carefully straightening punches on their bench bloc. Things like punches for pushing sights can be as simple as a piece of 1/4" square brass stock about 5" long.

The small non-marring nylon/brass hammer Brownells sells is one of the handiest tools you'll ever come across. The nice thing about the brass hammer side is that any marks you leave behind can be wiped away with a rag soaked in Breakfree- try that with a steel hammer.

A decent vice with a set of the non-marring jaws is handy. Half the battle in convincing a rear sight to come OUT of that dovetail is keeping the gun from moving when you wail..I mean, drive the sight out....that's it, drive the sight out.

Another super handy tool is the 6" ruler Brownells sells...not for measuring, but it makes cleaning under your nails and opening UPS packages a snap.

[drail]

It's better to damage a punch made of softer material than the gun you working on. Punches are cheaper than guns. Pin punches properly used are only for pushing pins through a hole. If you encounter a frozen pin you need what's known as a starter punch to break it loose. Very carefully. Slopemeno - breaking a Starret punch - you are a BAD man.

[LHB1]

Check Brownells website or catalog.

[Slopemeno]

One time Mac Scott handed me a new 1/16" Starret punch and I swear I broke it on the second swing of the hammer. He exploded "YOU ******! THATS A BRAND NEW PUNCH!". I spent some quality time learning to cut them back that day....

[Scorch]

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=8...C_GUNSMITH_KIT

[HiBC]

A tool brand that sells pretty good quality is SPI.And I recomend a Manhattan Supply catalogue.Need a chunk of 1 1/2 dia 8620,try McMaster-Carr.They have websites.

But,do support outfits like Brownell's.They are good ,and we need them.

Trick to skinny punches,use a short,stubby starter punch.You can take a totally scrap punch and set a dowel or ejector pin in the end.

Mold ejector pins are made of H-13 steel and nitrided.They are tough,and usually .0004 to .0007 under nominal.Great assembly slave pins.See "plastic injection molding" in the yellow pages.Ask for ejector pin stubs and etc.

You can make a pretty nice brass hammer with a lathe and a drill press

[Slopemeno]

I use Dixie Pins for a completely unrelated hobby (wingrods on R/C sailplanes) and those mold ejector pins are amazing. Super hard.

[ZeSpectre]

I learned a long time ago that punches should be considered a "consumable" item

[LongRifles, Inc.]

Brownells has the best screwdrivers. I own the super set which is a set of tool bits and I have the complete "master set" of individual ones as well.

None of which are cheap.

Starret makes the best punches. Don't even waste your time with anything else. Any punch will break/bend if abused. Just remember that no one is holding a gun to your head and making you swing that hammer. Patience goes a long way. (so does a hot air gun and a can of Kroil for the stubborn stuff)

Hammers? I have a small snap on ball peen hammer than I paid 60 bucks for over ten years ago. It's still going. . .

Mallets? A leather mallet is a must and again Brownells has the good ones.

Files: You can buy them from Brownells and pay an arm/leg or you can go to any reputable industrial tool supply. MSC is a good choice.

That covers the bulk of the basics but as you get into this there is a mountain of specialty tools that either don't exist or that you will pay a small fortune for. I build guns full time and I devote as much time to specialized tools for the trade as I do building rifles.

Hope this helps.

C

[JonnyP]

Wow. Lots of good advice here. I checked with McMaster Carr and they have just about everything, but not in kits. I've heard I need a drift punch (to line up holes before reinserting the pin), a starter punch (don't know precisely what that one is for), steel punches, and brass punches. What's the proper application for using steel punches? Nylon punches? What would be the most common sizes? Also supposedly need a hammer with a brass head on one side and a nylon head on the other. When do you use brass vs nylon?

I have a few guns that have been in storage for some time to the point where the old WD-40 has gummed up the works. That was my bad. Back in my teens I thought I was doing the right thing by cleaning/oiling with WD-40, but over time that stuff gums up and becomes very sticky, even in small amounts. Almost looks like cosmoline. Don't get me wrong, WD-40 is great stuff, but I've learned the hard way it's not good for storing guns. Now I need to get it all off, and unfortunately that requires almost complete tear-down. Hence, I'm looking around for a good gunsmithing tool kit with hammer and punches.

Keep the advice coming! Once I get a set, I'll let everyone know what I came up with.

Jonny

[JonnyP]

Longrifles,

You must have replied while I was typing in my last response. I will definitely try Starret. Would you be willing to share with me the answers to the questions in my previous post, like brass vs nylon hammer, when to use steel vs brass punches, how to properly use a drift punch and a starter punch? I have great interest in doing things the right way. What better way than to learn from someone like yourself?

Thanks!

Jonny

[brickeyee]

I've heard I need a drift punch (to line up holes before reinserting the pin)...

Use drill bits.

You should have both number sized and fractional.

If you do anything larger get teh letter size also.

Drift punches are for forcing things into alignment, not that common on a firearm.

You are not erecting structural steel.

Cheap brass punches are often dead soft brass.

Brass punches should be at least half-hard or better.
Even fully hardened brass is not going to mar steel.

[NWPilgrim]

Just get a basic set and then add as you find the need.

Use brass hammer when using a brass punch. Steel on brass will deform the brass more. Use brass hammer to lightly tap parts into position. The nylon or leather mallet is handy for tapping parts, too.

Unless you are detail stripping a large variety of guns you won't need a lot of punches. A 5/32 drift punch completely disassembles any Glock. The AR15 and 1911 may use more punches than most, but even then it is 2-3 sizes.

You can spend $200 and be ready to detail strip any gun in existence, or spend $50 on a hammer and a few punches to get started. It is a very small part of gunsmithing, especially if you only plan to maintain a few firearms and rarely detail strip.

[LongRifles, Inc.]

Slave pins, or pins for aligning things up during assembly has served me best by purchasing a cheap import gauge pin set. For less than a hundred bucks I have pins in .001" increments that will do about anything I'll ever need.

For inspection work, I have my good ones, for bench work the china versions work pretty dern good. Check out Enco tools.

Nylon, brass, rubber, etc.

Use these for anything your nervous about marking up basically. Also understand that a punch and hammer are not necessarily the first tools a guy needs to reach for during assembly/disassembly. For instance, when working with an AR-15 there is NO reason to use a hammer and punch for anything other than the roll pins used on the rear iron sight and the gas tube. Everything else will push out by hand pressure and punch alone. This is rather important as the aluminum receivers will not tolerate being beaten around. It'll elongate the trigger pin holes and that results in ruining any hope of consistent trigger breaks. (it's bad enough already)

A hot air gun and can of Kroil goes a long way for stubborn things. Hot air won't make your blued finishes look like the bottom of the reactor at 3 mile island. A torch will. Kroil has tremendous capillary action to wick down between parts. ATF with a little acetone works pretty good too.

Rarely do I use brass because it transfers material to the part being pounded on.

Nylon is something I've never used. I don't like plastic hammer faces much because if a chip is ever picked up it'll embed itself into the hammer face and then it becomes a booger stamp every time you use it.

I do like a leather mallet but I use them in the rarest of circumstances. When setting a mechanical zero on a service rifle they are great for knocking the front sight assembly around. This is target rifle stuff where the front sight assy is not attached by a pair of tapered pins. Service rifles typically use (4) set screws where the pins would normally go. That way you can move the front sight and adjust the windage while keeping the rear sight on it's mechanical zero (MZ)

Hope this helped.

C

[HiBC]

Maybe moderately off-topic,but,consider,unless you are working in old-rusty stuff,or taking apart things that really were'n't intended to be dis-assembled routinely,do not force parts.
Before you bend your punch if a little tap tap with a 4 oz hammer doesnt move the pin,slow down,look close,and be sure you understand that pin.does it have a groove inside the receiver a spring rides on or?

More white knuckles and a bigger hammer are not always the answer.

[sc928porsche]

Snap-on makes excellent quality hammers and punches!

[JonnyP]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I looked at several kits from several sources and did a little research to see what the most common sizes are. Then wound up getting a few individual punches from McMaster Carr. That should give me a good start. If I need more after that, I can always buy the size(s) I need.

Thanks to all for the many helpful suggestions!

Jonny