February 25, 2019, 09:06 PM | #1 |
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SIG M17 fixes
According to the Army Times, Sig Sauer has made multiple tweaks to the M17 and M18 pistols, with the goal of achieving minimal reliability in performance.
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...ndgun-problem/ My question is: If the original design didn't perform ... why and how was it selected? |
February 26, 2019, 01:04 AM | #2 |
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Murphy's Law of Combat #33:
Always remember your weapon was produced by the lowest bidder
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February 26, 2019, 05:39 AM | #3 |
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February 26, 2019, 05:50 AM | #4 |
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Here is another summary.
Between the both of them you’ll get an idea of what happened. https://youtu.be/v0LUbLu6TqA Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
February 26, 2019, 11:32 AM | #5 |
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It appears that SIG Sauer USA is learning that the same level of QC that their commercial products receive is not going to be acceptable for large military contracts (and a larger sample base that makes issues more readily apparent).
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February 26, 2019, 12:04 PM | #6 |
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No offense meant, but why do we care at this point? I feel like the M17 competition is a horse that is beyond dead. It's been beaten into the ground so much that someone should press charges for animal cruelty. The contract is awarded, I don't see anything changing that. SIG will have to find a way to make things work, and my experience with the P320 suggests they should be able to do that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kZKHNHGzCg
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
February 26, 2019, 12:56 PM | #7 |
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"Always remember your weapon was produced by the lowest bidder"
Military weapons, perhaps. But, not MY gun! As a civilian, I have access to better firearms than are supplied to the military. |
February 26, 2019, 01:59 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
As a taxpayer I feel strongly that is the way it should be
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February 26, 2019, 06:46 PM | #9 | ||
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Just making a funny guys. As someone who will eventually probably be issued one, as always, we will use it. Nobody cares if you are happy with it or not.
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February 26, 2019, 07:18 PM | #10 |
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Not unusual for there to be “A1” versions of weapon systems. 1911, m16..
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February 26, 2019, 07:38 PM | #11 |
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No problem. Stay safe.
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February 26, 2019, 09:14 PM | #12 | |
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I care because I’m paying for this crap. It may end up being a pistol for the ages but neither you or I know if it’s the best pistol in that competition. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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February 26, 2019, 09:33 PM | #13 | |
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From what we did learn from the GAO report in the testing that was done (and yes I watched the video above from Small Arm Solutions) there wasn't a significant difference in performance but there was in cost. Having owned both yes I'd rather the Glock personally, but do I think the SIG is a catastrophe? No. I think it will be iterated on and improved, just like the M16 and any number of other technologies that are praised today. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Last edited by TunnelRat; February 26, 2019 at 09:48 PM. |
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February 27, 2019, 12:10 AM | #14 | |
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This is merely the “death by a thousand cuts”. It ALL matters. Or should. It’s MY money and I want them held accountable. They NEVER finished testing so no one can say for sure how good the pistol is. I also prefer the Glock if it were my coin. But that’s based upon the FBI’s testing of the Gen 5. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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February 27, 2019, 12:26 AM | #15 | |
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As for what is or isn't the "best", how marginal of a difference matters? Would things really have changed dramatically in the second phase? There's more proof they wouldn't than there is that they would. As far as your money, the government saved you $100 million. You're welcome. And if you don't think there would have been issues had they adopted Glocks, then you weren't paying attention at the beginning of the Gen 4 or some of Glock's other recent offerings. But hey. If you want to keep being outraged about this (I'm assuming by the use of all caps) it's your call. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Last edited by TunnelRat; March 2, 2019 at 10:52 AM. |
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February 27, 2019, 10:49 AM | #16 | |||
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PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” Last edited by USNRet93; February 27, 2019 at 10:55 AM. |
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February 27, 2019, 10:51 AM | #17 | |
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Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Last edited by TunnelRat; February 27, 2019 at 12:13 PM. |
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February 27, 2019, 11:00 AM | #18 | ||
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"Equal performance"? Donno, since the complete testing protocol was never carrried out. Quote:
I was XO of a test and evaluation squadron in the USN(VX-4)...WE gave the brand new F-18 a big, fat thumb's down..yet...???? Developmental test(USN TPS)...also gave it a thumb's down but...
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PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” Last edited by USNRet93; February 27, 2019 at 11:06 AM. |
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February 27, 2019, 11:06 AM | #19 | |||
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness Last edited by TunnelRat; February 27, 2019 at 05:43 PM. |
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February 27, 2019, 11:37 AM | #20 | |
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March 2, 2019, 10:22 AM | #21 | |
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In reality, The SIG M17 simply beat the GLOCK at the tip of the spear in the combat performance evaluations. That is why it was selected. The fact SIG was smart in their licensing agreements with the Military and sweetened the deal. SIG was smart with the logistics and beat out the GLOCK on the range. No conspiracy theory required. |
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March 2, 2019, 11:16 AM | #22 |
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Imagine......
Imagine how much we would be complaining about our personally owned F-35's oh wait, we can't buy one, even if we could afford it.
It was well put earlier in the thread, in Govt. dollars the pistol contract amounts to a rounding error.
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March 2, 2019, 08:49 PM | #23 | |
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Uh, no. No, it didn’t. Some people really need to sit down and research a bit. Links were provided and you can research what was claimed. It’s ALL in he public domain so you’re just flat out incorrect... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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March 2, 2019, 08:50 PM | #24 | |
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SIG M17 fixes
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Pennies make dollars. Your attitude reflects, admirably I might add, why we are fast becoming a feces-hole of a nation. Just sit back and enjoy the show... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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March 3, 2019, 07:38 AM | #25 | |
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Yes, small potatoes in the grand scheme of the bloated defense budget but it still matters..to us tax payers(at least to me and Chui).. Not any kind of theory but what actually happened. Matter of record. What ISN'T is what $ changed hands during this 'competition'...
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PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” |
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