Daniel Defense M4V5 vs M4A1

M1Rifle30-06 · February 20, 2019, 11:11 AM

I appreciate all the help I've been getting on choosing a new AR. This'll be the last thread I make on it, as I have narrowed it down to two.

Tax return time and I'm set on blowing it all on another AR. I've narrowed it down to a Daniel Defense M4A1 or a Daniel Defense M4V5. The primary differences between these two is that the M4A1 has a 14.5" barrel with a pinned & welded flash hider and a carbine-length gas system, while the M4V5 has a 16" barrel with a midlength gas system. I like the idea of a 14.5" barrel even if it's only marginally shorter overall. I also like the RIS II the M4A1 comes with.

The main dilemma is that I want to be able to run low power ammo through it. I usually only shoot 5.56, but in the event there's only low powered .223 available I'd like to be able to shoot that reliably. As I understand it, a midlength gas system shooting lower powered ammo is closer to the functional threshold of being able to cycle, particularly with 14.5" barrels using a .076" gas port as BCM and Daniel Defense use. Does this hold true for 16" midlengths, or does the 1.5 extra inches of dwell time ensure it'll run anything? I've shot midlengths and can't discern a difference in recoil from the carbine, and they both have low profile gas blocks, so sight radius and recoil aren't a factor for me. Being able to eat any ammo I feed it is the main decision factor.

It's also my understanding that midlengths are easier on the parts over the long term. This is a consideration, but not as much as the short term reliability. Which do you think will run in a wider range of conditions with different ammo?

MC 1911 · February 20, 2019, 07:23 PM

Both will work with .223 get the one that's the most comfortable & feels best!

Eazyeach · February 20, 2019, 10:20 PM

You are over thinking it big time , dude. Just get the one you like best.

riffraff · February 21, 2019, 12:24 AM

AR15's are very reliable and figured out. I see people with the cheapest models of 16 inch carbines (with carbine gas), who do not even know how to clean them properly, running .223 ammo without issue.

And 5.56 is fairly available at the moment for reasonable prices anyway, down to .25/round for the 55 grain XM is what I've been getting spammed with in email. I even bought a bunch of Frontier Match in 68 grain for something like .35/round over the summer at Midway. After you get the rifle, whatever you like to run in it, buy an extra 1000, 2000, whatever rounds, stack them nicely in an ammo can, throw some dry packs in there, latch it up airtight, and stuff it in the safe for a rainy day - then you don't have to worry about a "shortage".

I was putting together a very light AR15 last spring and I went around and around on pinning a 14.5 or going w/ a 16 inch. For me the compromise to save an inch was not worth it.

Sharkbite · February 21, 2019, 12:54 PM

I would go with. 16” middy all day/everyday.

With a 14.5” and pinned FH, you only save about an inch in OAL. Take the velocity the 16” gives you, plus the softer recoil impulse of a middy and just shoot the carp out of it

Americanpatriot · February 22, 2019, 05:57 PM

I have a 14.5 inch pinned Colt. The shorter length is nice but a 16 inch midlength seems to meet your needs and concerns best. But at the end of the day pick the one that interests you most to avoid purchase remorse

Brutus · February 24, 2019, 07:43 AM

I recently purchased a D&D V5 and absolutely love it. Like it so much I ordered a 6.8SPC upper assembly for it so I can use it for hunting.
This is coming from an old fart that thought all rifles should have wood stocks and a lever or bolt, still do but boy I sure like the 6 1/4lb. weight and light recoil, heck I can shoot this thing all day as opposed to my 30/06 which is starting to hurt in my old age.

odugrad · February 25, 2019, 12:54 PM

I have owned both. I shot the M4A1 much more often.

One other difference is the M4A1 is based off the military's Block II, so if you're interested in a Block II clone, go with the M4A1. And the RIS II rail is much bulkier than the DD rail if that matters to you.

But I preferred shooting the M4A1 over the V5. I felt it handled a little better with the shorter barrel. It's all going to come down to personal preference.

February 20, 2019, 11:11 AM	#1
M1Rifle30-06 Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2012 Posts: 118	Daniel Defense M4V5 vs M4A1 I appreciate all the help I've been getting on choosing a new AR. This'll be the last thread I make on it, as I have narrowed it down to two. Tax return time and I'm set on blowing it all on another AR. I've narrowed it down to a Daniel Defense M4A1 or a Daniel Defense M4V5. The primary differences between these two is that the M4A1 has a 14.5" barrel with a pinned & welded flash hider and a carbine-length gas system, while the M4V5 has a 16" barrel with a midlength gas system. I like the idea of a 14.5" barrel even if it's only marginally shorter overall. I also like the RIS II the M4A1 comes with. The main dilemma is that I want to be able to run low power ammo through it. I usually only shoot 5.56, but in the event there's only low powered .223 available I'd like to be able to shoot that reliably. As I understand it, a midlength gas system shooting lower powered ammo is closer to the functional threshold of being able to cycle, particularly with 14.5" barrels using a .076" gas port as BCM and Daniel Defense use. Does this hold true for 16" midlengths, or does the 1.5 extra inches of dwell time ensure it'll run anything? I've shot midlengths and can't discern a difference in recoil from the carbine, and they both have low profile gas blocks, so sight radius and recoil aren't a factor for me. Being able to eat any ammo I feed it is the main decision factor. It's also my understanding that midlengths are easier on the parts over the long term. This is a consideration, but not as much as the short term reliability. Which do you think will run in a wider range of conditions with different ammo?

February 24, 2019, 07:43 AM	#7
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	I recently purchased a D&D V5 and absolutely love it. Like it so much I ordered a 6.8SPC upper assembly for it so I can use it for hunting. This is coming from an old fart that thought all rifles should have wood stocks and a lever or bolt, still do but boy I sure like the 6 1/4lb. weight and light recoil, heck I can shoot this thing all day as opposed to my 30/06 which is starting to hurt in my old age. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

February 20, 2019, 07:23 PM	#2
MC 1911 Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2011 Location: Virginia Posts: 373	Both will work with .223 get the one that's the most comfortable & feels best!

February 20, 2019, 10:20 PM	#3
Eazyeach Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2014 Posts: 706	You are over thinking it big time , dude. Just get the one you like best.

February 21, 2019, 12:24 AM	#4
riffraff Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2016 Posts: 629	AR15's are very reliable and figured out. I see people with the cheapest models of 16 inch carbines (with carbine gas), who do not even know how to clean them properly, running .223 ammo without issue. And 5.56 is fairly available at the moment for reasonable prices anyway, down to .25/round for the 55 grain XM is what I've been getting spammed with in email. I even bought a bunch of Frontier Match in 68 grain for something like .35/round over the summer at Midway. After you get the rifle, whatever you like to run in it, buy an extra 1000, 2000, whatever rounds, stack them nicely in an ammo can, throw some dry packs in there, latch it up airtight, and stuff it in the safe for a rainy day - then you don't have to worry about a "shortage". I was putting together a very light AR15 last spring and I went around and around on pinning a 14.5 or going w/ a 16 inch. For me the compromise to save an inch was not worth it.

February 21, 2019, 12:54 PM	#5
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	I would go with. 16” middy all day/everyday. With a 14.5” and pinned FH, you only save about an inch in OAL. Take the velocity the 16” gives you, plus the softer recoil impulse of a middy and just shoot the carp out of it

February 22, 2019, 05:57 PM	#6
Americanpatriot Member Join Date: June 11, 2017 Posts: 34	I have a 14.5 inch pinned Colt. The shorter length is nice but a 16 inch midlength seems to meet your needs and concerns best. But at the end of the day pick the one that interests you most to avoid purchase remorse

February 25, 2019, 12:54 PM	#8
odugrad Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2013 Location: The East Coast Posts: 477	I have owned both. I shot the M4A1 much more often. One other difference is the M4A1 is based off the military's Block II, so if you're interested in a Block II clone, go with the M4A1. And the RIS II rail is much bulkier than the DD rail if that matters to you. But I preferred shooting the M4A1 over the V5. I felt it handled a little better with the shorter barrel. It's all going to come down to personal preference.