.38-55 Today

DPris · August 13, 2018, 06:15 PM

In a levergun, recognizing a niche caliber, which do you think is shot more- lead or jacketed?
Denis

Targa · August 13, 2018, 06:25 PM

I feel pretty confident in saying lead.

DPris · August 13, 2018, 09:40 PM

Me too.
Anybody else?
Denis

dahermit · August 13, 2018, 09:46 PM

It depends upon how many 38-55 owners are also handloaders and bullet casters. I do believe that most of the commercial rounds are jacketed. But the true bore diameter of the old guns was .379...something not easy to find today so that cries out for a cast lead bullet. I had two 38-55's and one Winchester .375 in my lifetime.

FrankenMauser · August 13, 2018, 10:22 PM

Lead.

Dufus · August 13, 2018, 11:17 PM

My old Marlin has a 0.381" bore so I gotta shoot cast. I had a custom mold made by Accurate Molds. It is the 38-250F in the catalogue and casts 0.382" which is perfect for me. I can shoot a 1 1/4" 6 shot group at 50 yds. The longest shot so far was a beer can at 185 yds on the second shot. I also hit a turtle with it at 180 yds on 1st shot.

Thought I would mention that I use the long brass made by Starline and RCBS Cowboy dies with the larger expander.

bbqncigars · August 13, 2018, 11:18 PM

Definitely lead. There's a lot of choices from commercial casters these days from different diameters to lubes/coatings.

cptjack · August 14, 2018, 05:06 AM

Why shoot a turtle

why shoot a turtle

kozak6 · August 14, 2018, 09:10 AM

Turns out that's actually a caliber. Huh.

It's so slow leading won't be a problem, and you have to reload it anyways. Might as well cast them. Not much reason to use a jacketed bullet.

DPris · August 14, 2018, 11:27 AM

So, if a riflemaker were going to offer the caliber, it should be set up for lead, you think?
Denis

FrankenMauser · August 14, 2018, 12:07 PM

That would make sense to the average person. But the people making decisions for gun companies these days seem to be below average...

Quote:

why shoot a turtle

Why shoot a deer?
Why shoot a pig?
Why shoot paper?

There are reasons.

Dufus · August 14, 2018, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Why shoot a turtle

The water hole covers approximately 1 1/4 acres. There are approximately 800-1000 turtles in it. This includes a population of alligator snapping turtles which are a protected species.

The turtles eat fish. Small fish, which includes baby large mouth black bass, bluegills, and sun perch, as well as crawdads and salamanders. There is no other practical method of controlling the turtle population, other than netting and we are not setup for that.

Sorry for getting off topic. I apologize.

Dufus · August 14, 2018, 01:02 PM

Quote:

It's so slow leading won't be a problem, and you have to reload it anyways

I clocked some Winchester factory Super X 255 gr CXP2 copper jacketed when I first bought the gun and needed some brass. The 10 shot average was 1156 fps. Advertised velocity was 1320 fps.

I can load it to 1800 fps, but I choose to keep velocities below 1500 fps with cast bullets. RE 7 and IMR 4198 work well for smokeless powder.

2F black powder is a fun round to shoot too.

ilmonster · August 14, 2018, 03:05 PM

As this is a niche caliber, I too would think most folks would be shooting lead vs. jacketed. Too many other jacketed rounds one could use for hunting like a 30-30.

As an aside, never really thought of a 38-55 as I have never seen one in the flesh (and already have two lever actions), but that could be a fun rifle (Marlin, Henry....). I would certainly reload lead rounds for it were I to have one. Straight walled cartridges like my 45-70 are fun to reload and shoot!

Scorch · August 14, 2018, 07:03 PM

38-55 bore diameters I have measured vary from .378 to ,382, so lead is pretty much the only option if you want any kind of accuracy out of it. But the 38-55 is such a neat cartridge that Winchester revamped it back in the late 70s-early 80s as the 375 Winchester, with a standard bore diameter of .375". The 375 Winchester never really caught on and is all but dead, but the 38-55 has enjoyed a resurgence because of cowboy action shooting.

**44 AMP** · August 14, 2018, 08:37 PM

My Father used to say the .38-55 would shoot.. "darn near across the room.."

Created using black powder and lead bullets, I think its best to stick with those, in the older rifles. Even though jacketed ammo is available at safe pressures, jacketed bullets wear out barrels faster, and barrels made before 1900 (and some say the 1920s) are "softer" than more modern steel alloys.

If you are shooting a vintage rifle, why risk accelerated wear??

Drm50 · August 14, 2018, 09:47 PM

I say lead. For the reason there are more vintage 38/55s than new ones. Most of the guys
who shoot these old guys are loaders & casters. Another reason is that I have 14 old Wins
& Marlin Levers . Calibres like 25/20-32/20-38/40- 38/55- 38/40 & 40/60. There is not one
of these rifles that will shoot jackets as well as cast. And the reason for that is bullet dia.
I have no experience with the late model win 94s in 38/55, they might launch Js alright.

eastbank · August 15, 2018, 03:48 AM

in my late fathers pond I watched snapping turtles take baby ducks and eat most of them. I shot them in the head with a scoped .22 mag, good riddance.

ilmonster · August 15, 2018, 10:00 AM

Denis, forgive my ignorance, but what would a rifle manufacturer do differently if they were designing a rifle for shooting mostly lead rounds vs. jacketed? I don't know that my 1894 or 1895 was designed or manufactured to shoot one vs. the other?

DPris · August 15, 2018, 11:15 AM

Marlin and H&R had their chambers & diameter set up using the wrong specs.
For a more technical explanation go to www.starlinebrass.com & search their article on it.
Sorry, can't give you a direct link.

Written in 2015.
Details it better than I can.

Denis

ilmonster · August 15, 2018, 12:55 PM

Thanks for the link! That explains things well. Also like all the other articles on their website.

The more I read about the 38-55, the more it sounds like an interesting caliber - kind of a 45-70 light.

p.s. The article on loading for the 45-70 with light loads (which i do) and issues with weak primers was also super interesting. Good stuff!

Dufus · August 15, 2018, 01:07 PM

Here is the article by M.L. McPherson.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/articl...--38-55-Rifle/

DPris · August 15, 2018, 01:08 PM

I was interested, but just couldn't get the Marlin and H&R I had here to fly right with lead handloads.
Let the Marlin go, had H&R re-barrel to a .30-30.

I think with the right chambers, the right bore, and the right brass, it could be a fun round.

Emphasis on "right".

Marlin and H&R did NOT do it right.
Denis

ligonierbill · August 15, 2018, 03:05 PM

Surprised no one has mentioned that the 38-55, as a straight-walled cartridge, is legal for hunting deer in Ohio. Maybe other states with similar restrictions. I agree the 30-30 is a better round. But you can't use it here.

PS: Cast bullets mostly, but I'm also shooting Barnes "Originals" (they're not copper).

Dufus · August 15, 2018, 07:57 PM

I bought some Barnes Originals (0.377") and tried to get them to shoot, but they were not as accurate as the properly fitted cast bullets.

It wasn't a total loss as I use them in my 375 H&H loads around 2200-2300 fps.

August 13, 2018, 06:15 PM	#1
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	.38-55 Today In a levergun, recognizing a niche caliber, which do you think is shot more- lead or jacketed? Denis

August 13, 2018, 10:22 PM	#5
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Lead. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

August 13, 2018, 11:18 PM	#7
bbqncigars Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 525	Definitely lead. There's a lot of choices from commercial casters these days from different diameters to lubes/coatings. __________________ "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." A. Brilliant

August 14, 2018, 03:05 PM	#14
ilmonster Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 180	.38-55 Today As this is a niche caliber, I too would think most folks would be shooting lead vs. jacketed. Too many other jacketed rounds one could use for hunting like a 30-30. As an aside, never really thought of a 38-55 as I have never seen one in the flesh (and already have two lever actions), but that could be a fun rifle (Marlin, Henry....). I would certainly reload lead rounds for it were I to have one. Straight walled cartridges like my 45-70 are fun to reload and shoot! Last edited by ilmonster; August 14, 2018 at 06:42 PM.

August 14, 2018, 07:03 PM	#15
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	38-55 bore diameters I have measured vary from .378 to ,382, so lead is pretty much the only option if you want any kind of accuracy out of it. But the 38-55 is such a neat cartridge that Winchester revamped it back in the late 70s-early 80s as the 375 Winchester, with a standard bore diameter of .375". The 375 Winchester never really caught on and is all but dead, but the 38-55 has enjoyed a resurgence because of cowboy action shooting. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

August 13, 2018, 06:25 PM	#2
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	I feel pretty confident in saying lead.

August 13, 2018, 09:40 PM	#3
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Me too. Anybody else? Denis

August 13, 2018, 09:46 PM	#4
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	It depends upon how many 38-55 owners are also handloaders and bullet casters. I do believe that most of the commercial rounds are jacketed. But the true bore diameter of the old guns was .379...something not easy to find today so that cries out for a cast lead bullet. I had two 38-55's and one Winchester .375 in my lifetime.

August 13, 2018, 11:17 PM	#6
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	My old Marlin has a 0.381" bore so I gotta shoot cast. I had a custom mold made by Accurate Molds. It is the 38-250F in the catalogue and casts 0.382" which is perfect for me. I can shoot a 1 1/4" 6 shot group at 50 yds. The longest shot so far was a beer can at 185 yds on the second shot. I also hit a turtle with it at 180 yds on 1st shot. Thought I would mention that I use the long brass made by Starline and RCBS Cowboy dies with the larger expander.

August 14, 2018, 05:06 AM	#8
cptjack Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2014 Posts: 314	Why shoot a turtle why shoot a turtle

August 14, 2018, 09:10 AM	#9
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	Turns out that's actually a caliber. Huh. It's so slow leading won't be a problem, and you have to reload it anyways. Might as well cast them. Not much reason to use a jacketed bullet.

August 14, 2018, 11:27 AM	#10
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	So, if a riflemaker were going to offer the caliber, it should be set up for lead, you think? Denis

August 14, 2018, 08:37 PM	#16
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	My Father used to say the .38-55 would shoot.. "darn near across the room.." Created using black powder and lead bullets, I think its best to stick with those, in the older rifles. Even though jacketed ammo is available at safe pressures, jacketed bullets wear out barrels faster, and barrels made before 1900 (and some say the 1920s) are "softer" than more modern steel alloys. If you are shooting a vintage rifle, why risk accelerated wear?? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 14, 2018, 09:47 PM	#17
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,380	I say lead. For the reason there are more vintage 38/55s than new ones. Most of the guys who shoot these old guys are loaders & casters. Another reason is that I have 14 old Wins & Marlin Levers . Calibres like 25/20-32/20-38/40- 38/55- 38/40 & 40/60. There is not one of these rifles that will shoot jackets as well as cast. And the reason for that is bullet dia. I have no experience with the late model win 94s in 38/55, they might launch Js alright.

August 15, 2018, 03:48 AM	#18
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	in my late fathers pond I watched snapping turtles take baby ducks and eat most of them. I shot them in the head with a scoped .22 mag, good riddance.

August 15, 2018, 10:00 AM	#19
ilmonster Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 180	Denis, forgive my ignorance, but what would a rifle manufacturer do differently if they were designing a rifle for shooting mostly lead rounds vs. jacketed? I don't know that my 1894 or 1895 was designed or manufactured to shoot one vs. the other?

August 15, 2018, 11:15 AM	#20
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Marlin and H&R had their chambers & diameter set up using the wrong specs. For a more technical explanation go to www.starlinebrass.com & search their article on it. Sorry, can't give you a direct link. Written in 2015. Details it better than I can. Denis

August 15, 2018, 12:55 PM	#21
ilmonster Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 180	Thanks for the link! That explains things well. Also like all the other articles on their website. The more I read about the 38-55, the more it sounds like an interesting caliber - kind of a 45-70 light. p.s. The article on loading for the 45-70 with light loads (which i do) and issues with weak primers was also super interesting. Good stuff!

August 15, 2018, 01:07 PM	#22
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	Here is the article by M.L. McPherson. https://www.starlinebrass.com/articl...--38-55-Rifle/

August 15, 2018, 01:08 PM	#23
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	I was interested, but just couldn't get the Marlin and H&R I had here to fly right with lead handloads. Let the Marlin go, had H&R re-barrel to a .30-30. I think with the right chambers, the right bore, and the right brass, it could be a fun round. Emphasis on "right". Marlin and H&R did NOT do it right. Denis

August 15, 2018, 03:05 PM	#24
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Surprised no one has mentioned that the 38-55, as a straight-walled cartridge, is legal for hunting deer in Ohio. Maybe other states with similar restrictions. I agree the 30-30 is a better round. But you can't use it here. PS: Cast bullets mostly, but I'm also shooting Barnes "Originals" (they're not copper).

August 15, 2018, 07:57 PM	#25
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	I bought some Barnes Originals (0.377") and tried to get them to shoot, but they were not as accurate as the properly fitted cast bullets. It wasn't a total loss as I use them in my 375 H&H loads around 2200-2300 fps.