July 26, 2016, 01:02 PM | #1 |
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Thread muzzle pay ITAR
Seen this on FFL forum, applies to some
Looks like the trade just got smaller or more expensive. https://blog.princelaw.com/2016/07/2...-registration/
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Republic Arms and Armaments 07 1-502-231-1118 Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public Last edited by guncrank; July 28, 2016 at 07:58 PM. |
July 26, 2016, 01:43 PM | #2 |
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I know this post is rather "drive by" but it is worthy of discussion.
(OP,if you will edit your post and say something besides just posting the link it will help keep the thread from being closed.Just posting a link is known as a "drive by" and they are usually closed) It seems to require a $2250 registration with ITAR if you use machine tools in the practice of gunsmithing,(such as a barrel chambering job)with significant penalty for failure to comply. Commentary from the legal scholars would be appreciated. |
July 26, 2016, 02:51 PM | #3 | |
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Quote:
It really seems like the system, as currently operated, makes it very difficult to be a small operation.
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July 27, 2016, 12:14 AM | #4 |
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ITAR regulations only apply to those manufacturers who export outside of the US.
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July 27, 2016, 05:58 AM | #5 | |
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I don't know that I qualify as a legal "scholar," but give me a couple of days to read up on ITAR regs and I'll come back around to see if I can shed any light on this.
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July 27, 2016, 09:45 AM | #6 |
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You could not be more mistaken, Scorch, it applies to anyone dealing in 'defense articles' defined by ITAR and State. You might want to do some research on whether you should currently be paying if doing custom machine work. Even accurizing a rifle stock is considered applicable. Anything to do with ARs is generally applicable after these reg changes.
Meanwhile, I can supposedly post detailed instructions on how to build a new firearm action for all the world to see as a person not in the business, even though ITAR is about regulating information, not commerce (which is why I don't buy the claim this only applies to businesses, e.g. what happened to Cody Wilson) TCB
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July 27, 2016, 12:04 PM | #7 | |
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It is critical to understand that the definition of "manufacturing" by the BATF, and that by DDTC, are NOT the same. I researched this extensively before getting my 07 instead of the typical 01 license for most gunsmithing. Certain services, even on customers' firearms- is considered manufacturing under the BATF (hence my 07) but is not manufacturing under the DDTC. There is a misconception that having an 07, is some sort of automatic requirement to register with DDTC and that is patently false- as outlined in the linked article. Depends on the work- and commonly, who owns the receiver? Me, or the customer?
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July 27, 2016, 11:38 PM | #8 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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July 28, 2016, 02:44 AM | #9 |
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Scorch,
You are definitely correct about what the ATF considers a firearms manufacturer, and I truly believe you got the correct answer 4 years ago when you inquired with US Customs about the need for ITAR compliance. What the DDTC is doing is not using the ATF definition of "manufacturer" in a specific letter to manufacturers AND gunsmiths. The original letter can be found here: http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/A...0(Publish).pdf Registration Required – Manufacturing: In response to questions from persons engaged in the business of gunsmithing, DDTC has found in specific cases that ITAR registration is required because the following activities meet the ordinary, contemporary, common meaning of “manufacturing” and, therefore, constitute “manufacturing” for ITAR purposes: a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms; b) Modifications to a firearm that change round capacity; c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors); d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition; e) The machining or cutting of firearms, e.g., threading of muzzles or muzzle brake installation requiring machining, that results in an enhanced capability; f) Rechambering firearms through machining, cutting, or drilling; g) Chambering, cutting, or threading barrel blanks; and h) Blueprinting firearms by machining the barrel. And I think that is an INSANE definition of "manufacture" since it is patently clear that someone doing a custom rear end swap on a car is going to have to do some machining, but the mechanic is clearly not "manufacturing" a car, just doing a modification. Also you have to wonder why in the world "stocks" would be listed? But, the actual US Munitions List starts out with 50 cal and under small arms. (g) Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames) or complete breech mechanisms for the articles in paragraphs (a) through (d) of this category. (h) Components, parts, accessories and attachments for the articles in paragraphs (a) through (g) of this category. Since a "stock" is a component of a firearm, then sure as shooting there is a legal case to be made for anyone in the business of making and selling stocks would be subject to ITAR registration. I think this guidance letter is insane, as domestic gunsmithing activities are as separated from the international arms trade the same way your local doctor is separated from the international drug trade. Jimro
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July 28, 2016, 04:51 AM | #10 |
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Jimro,agreed,insane!!Or diabolical.
I'm trying to keep my jets cool and not get too excited till this is verified. |
July 28, 2016, 07:03 AM | #11 |
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Interesting, I have always been under the impression that ALL firearms manufactures (except those that make sporting shotguns) had to pay the ITAR fee. To me the only new issue is that manufacturing would include threading a barrel.
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July 28, 2016, 07:56 AM | #12 | |
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Edited... Wow. All I can say.... Every gunsmith out there now needs an 07- and needs to register with DDTC. I called DDTC- he confirmed that ownership of the firearm makes no difference, and all these operations that have been "gunsmithing" for as long as there have been gunsmiths- are now considered "manufacturing".
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Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting 07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts Genuine Cerakote Applicator www.biggorillagunworks.com Last edited by tobnpr; July 28, 2016 at 08:05 AM. |
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July 28, 2016, 09:06 AM | #13 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
(I'm thinking of spinning this off as a separate thread.)
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July 28, 2016, 11:08 AM | #14 |
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^^^
I doubt it- but you never know. Even "clarifications" are not binding, read here: This just out by the NRA-ILA yesterday. I emailed them, and was told Congress is working on legislation. We'll see. I have already called the Representative for my Congressional District. https://www.nraila.org/articles/2016...ve-gun-control
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July 28, 2016, 11:20 AM | #15 |
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Hmmm...
So if i do a Form 1 to make an SBR....am i now a "manufacturer" under this ruling? ATF has held that i am not, but what about under ITAR??? |
July 28, 2016, 11:30 AM | #16 |
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Reading the original Princeton Law article itself, I'm left with little
doubt that death-by-1,000-cuts is clearly & deliberately in motion. Last edited by mehavey; July 28, 2016 at 01:18 PM. |
July 28, 2016, 12:35 PM | #17 | |||||
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ITAT came about in the 1970s. Traditionally, it was meant to be only about importation and exportation of "defense articles". However, the firearm supposed fall into international traffic. From the State Dept:
Quote:
Thus, any gunsmith working on a firearm (considered a defense article) that will be exported, would fall under this act. This also includes the sharing of gunsmithing information (how to), and any firearms designs to a foreign entity. "Disclosing (including oral or visual disclosure) or transferring technical data to a foreign person". Quote:
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BATFE on the definition of a manufacturer: Quote:
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========== Guncrank, you need to add your thoughts on this under your comment, as it is considered a drive by. |
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July 28, 2016, 12:48 PM | #18 |
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tobnpr, I hadn't seen the NRA article, but that explains it, an executive order from the famous gun-grabber himself. We'll see if the NRA takes the definition of "manufacturer" to court, as re-barreling, milling, or drilling on any firearm, belonging to another, was never considered manufacturing.
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July 28, 2016, 01:48 PM | #19 |
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All,
I also noticed that the NRA has an article on how the DDTC is looking at interfering in what we speak of on this section of the forum, and on reloading. Obama used an executive order, and thus the letter from the DDTC, about not only reclassifying what a manufacturer is, but about what is acceptable speech to them on the internet. Stop Obama's Planned Gag Order on Firearm-Related Speech: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...related-speech According to them, if we write something about how to build or manufacture a firearm, and someone from another country reads it, we could be fined and imprisoned. |
July 28, 2016, 03:08 PM | #20 |
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I believe I spoke incorrectly above, when saying that all gunsmiths would now need an 07.
I don't think that's the case, but I'm not sure. What is clear, is that DDTC registration, and ITAR compliance is required for all of us in the business- and I don't see why one couldn't still keep an 01, and register with DDTC as a "manufacturer". IOW, do all gunsmiths now need an 07? I'm saying that in general terms....somewhere, there may be a gunsmith that only swaps factory parts- but I doubt it. Just stoning a sear or slide "improves the capability" of the firearm. They state: DDTC applies the ordinary, contemporary, common meaning for “gunsmithing,” which traditionally has broadly included designing, making, or repairing guns. Really? Pee on my leg and tell me it's raining? Since when has machining work NOT been part of "traditional" gunsmithing?? If you have an FFL- and even if you do not- call your Congressional Representatives! If you're a Dealer/Retailer- know that they will be coming for you, next.
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July 28, 2016, 06:13 PM | #21 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
DDTC registration is required if one engages in "manufacturing" as defined by the Department of State. Period. Even if you're NOT a FFL. IOW stop thinking about ATF regulations. In fact, try to forget everything you know about them. This is unrelated.
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July 28, 2016, 06:52 PM | #22 |
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carguychris,
Yes, it is insidious, in how they are interpreting the word, manufacture, when they don't even have it defined within the law itself. Thus, they can stretch the word to mean what they want. That is what this administration has had the DDTC look into, to find any loopholes that they can use. Even worse, is what looks to be their assault on free speech, when one reads the Federal Register, about how they are redefining the wording, especially on what they consider technological data which we write about here. We wont know what that entails until others look at that on here. I was told that it will be several days for that to be investigated for its meaning. |
July 28, 2016, 07:20 PM | #23 |
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So does this apply to doing gunsmithing in one's home?
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July 28, 2016, 07:54 PM | #24 |
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No it does not apply to any personal gunsmithing , only regulated firearms trade
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Republic Arms and Armaments 07 1-502-231-1118 Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public |
July 28, 2016, 10:09 PM | #25 |
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I appreciate your optimism.
But I'm not sure I can count on it. |
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