Cop mistakes good Samaritan for bad guy

[Colorado Redneck]

"A man who intervened in a shooting that killed a police officer near Denver was shot and killed by a responding officer while holding the suspect’s AR-15, police said Friday.

Johnny Hurley, who has been described by police as a hero who prevented further bloodshed, shot suspect Ronald Troyke on Monday after Troyke gunned down Arvada Officer Gordon Beesley with a 12-gauge semi-automatic shotgun.

After shooting Beesley twice, Troyke shot out the windows of police cars in the city’s downtown district, returned to his truck to get an AR-15 and was confronted by Hurley, who shot him with a handgun. When an officer arrived, Hurley was holding Troyke’s AR-15 and the officer opened fire, police said."

This very situation has been discussed here multiple times. It is a very tragic story, and a big lesson for persons that may find themselves involved with a shooter. Don't be holding firearms when the cops arrive. No guarantees the police can discern a good guy from a criminal.

I'll post a link later.

[MarkCO]

So sad. Officer Beesley was a great officer and person in our community. First officer in Arvada killed by gunfire ever. Sounds like Hurley acted in a Heroic manner as well, but a tragic end for him.

[Colorado Redneck]

Mark, you are so right. The guy that targeted the officer ruined many lives.

[JohnKSa]

It happens. Cops mistake each other for bad guys too. When they show up on the scene of a shooting, it's dangerous to be in plain clothes holding a gun.

In this case, the responding officer was almost certainly told that the shooter had a long gun and when he showed up, the good Samaritan was holding the bad guy's AR-15.

It's something we should all keep in mind--at least all of us who keep firearms as a self-defense contingency. In the event that you are involved in a shooting, keep in mind that there's no "good guy" sign on your forehead and think about how to handle the initial interaction between yourself and the responding officers constructively.

[Colorado Redneck]

"Colorado man who intervened after ambush on officer was fatally shot by police" https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1272441

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Sad sorry for all. The Hero and the Officer and their families. The Officer will have to live with this the rest of his life. Just read about another Officer that was shot at a stop for nothing. It has been a tough year for the Police. And I am afraid it is going to get worse. More targets on their back each day. Hated and spit on by so many. I go out of my way to tell each one I see, thanks for the Great Job.
When the small town of Windsor Virginia Police were slammed by CNN for example, I got into my car on a Sunday, bought two dozen doughnuts and drove the hour drive to give to them and thank them. (Of course the truth really comes out when you hear the real facts)

Question? How many fallen Police officers have had their families invited to the White house since Jan 2021?

[rickyrick]

Condolences to the family.

I have often thought that this could be a possibility with Good Samaritan gun owners.

[mehavey]

Heckuva situation...

But best to realize that arriving LEOs on an active-shooter scene are
spring-loaded to "stop the threat."

Better to be on knees, weapon far away, hands-up... until things sort out.

Question? How many fallen Police officers have had their families
invited to the White house since Jan 2021?

Tells you everything you need to know on priorities, feelings, and mindset of
everyone involved at this point. Calibrate your actions/reactions accordingly.

[HiBC]

I don't live in Arvada. Word is he was a darn good LEO. The folks appreciated him. RIP.
The murderer was armed with a shotgun AND an AR-15.Odds are good he intended to have more victims.

Hurley stopped the killing with a handgun. He probably saved lives.He has my Respect...and thanks. RIP

The tragic ending: No its not OK....but "Fog of War" happens. Shots fired,officer down. A man holding an AR-15. I'm guessing thats what the responding officer had to work with.
I'm not going to armchair quarterback on him.Its tough to be him . I'm not perfect,myself.

I'm not an LEO. The Hollywood stereotype ? I don't buy it as true,but per Hollywood,there are no "Good guys with guns" Maybe put out the memo on the CCW Citizen as being out there by the thousands and an ally.

And CCW training needs to emphasize just how vulnerable of a target the CCW holder is from all sides : A partner in crime,other armed good guys,and responding LEO's.
We need to be extremely aware of our "I'm your Huckleberry" factor.

We have more power than anyone else to make ourselves not look like an immediate threat.
An Officer responding to "Shots fired,officer down" is unlikely to perceive a man holding an AR-15 as anything but an immediate lethal threat.

[ghbucky]

For those of that carry, it is a good idea to spend some time thinking about the aftermath of a shooting and how to ensure that you are not perceived as a threat.

I watched a pretty good video that talked about steps to take some time ago, but I just did a search on youtube and got nothing.

I'm not trying to second guess anything that happened here. Just offering this up as something that may save your life.

[MarkCO]

I do live in Arvada HiBC and agree completely with your post.

I have trained with and alongside APD in various capacities and yes, they are a very good dept and Officer Beesley was well liked and was also a good officer.

As you can imagine, with literally hundreds of CCW holders in Arvada that I have trained, I got a lot of calls. Most of them were centered around an aspect of my training where, as a citizen with a gun out, you should be stopping the threat and once the threat is stopped, move ASAP to cover, holster but stay on the grip and get on the Cell phone. It is how we train it in active shooter scenarios, me sometimes being the threat and sometimes the citizen with officers coming in after the call.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Originally Posted by MarkCO

I do live in Arvada HiBC and agree completely with your post.

I have trained with and alongside APD in various capacities and yes, they are a very good dept and Officer Beesley was well liked and was also a good officer.

As you can imagine, with literally hundreds of CCW holders in Arvada that I have trained, I got a lot of calls. Most of them were centered around an aspect of my training where, as a citizen with a gun out, you should be stopping the threat and once the threat is stopped, move ASAP to cover, holster but stay on the grip and get on the Cell phone. It is how we train it in active shooter scenarios, me sometimes being the threat and sometimes the citizen with officers coming in after the call.

Good smart post. It is a shame people that carry do not take a Course in safety from a certified Instructor before carrying. If so, it might have saved this good man's life.

I am sure most of you have seen the video of the Army LT. that made the news. In Windor VA. He was pulled over and of course he would not simply comply.
Learning how to comply with Police is so important. Especially at night. They cannot see inside the automobile. They are scared and want to go home to their families
just like anyone else.
Pull over, turn your dome light on, and put both hands out the window so they can see you are NOT armed. Let them secure the area.

Can you imagine what it is like to have to walk up to a automobile these days? Especially at night? It has got to be nerve racking as hell to do it over and over. And now this Poison Propaganda going around that Cops are all evil out to do harm is disgusting!!! People now out to even set them up.

[HiBC]

Pull over, turn your dome light on, and put both hands out the window so they can see you are NOT armed. Let them secure the area.

An LEO told me it was better to just keep your hands on the steering wheel at 10 and 2. Shut the car off.

His point was hands coming out the window made him nervous.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

It happens. Cops mistake each other for bad guys too. When they show up on the scene of a shooting, it's dangerous to be in plain clothes holding a gun.

In this case, the responding officer was almost certainly told that the shooter had a long gun and when he showed up, the good Samaritan was holding the bad guy's AR-15.

It's something we should all keep in mind--at least all of us who keep firearms as a self-defense contingency. In the event that you are involved in a shooting, keep in mind that there's no "good guy" sign on your forehead and think about how to handle the initial interaction between yourself and the responding officers constructively.

Yep. One of the guys on our swat team shot himself in the mirror. It made me mad enough to shoot him. (Not literally)

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by HiBC

An LEO told me it was better to just keep your hands on the steering wheel at 10 and 2. Shut the car off.

His point was hands coming out the window made him nervous.

Not really a good universal rule. What one officer likes, another hates.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker

Good smart post. It is a shame people that carry do not take a Course in safety from a certified Instructor before carrying. If so, it might have saved this good man's life.

I am sure most of you have seen the video of the Army LT. that made the news. In Windor VA. He was pulled over and of course he would not simply comply.
Learning how to comply with Police is so important. Especially at night. They cannot see inside the automobile. They are scared and want to go home to their families
just like anyone else.
Pull over, turn your dome light on, and put both hands out the window so they can see you are NOT armed. Let them secure the area.

Can you imagine what it is like to have to walk up to a automobile these days? Especially at night? It has got to be nerve racking as hell to do it over and over. And now this Poison Propaganda going around that Cops are all evil out to do harm is disgusting!!! People now out to even set them up.

I never would work night shift without a car with take down lights. If you had illegal window tint at night, be ready for the felony stop. I was not about to walk up to a car blind.

[FireForged]

Holding a weapon on the scene of a shooting will likely always be fraught with risk and a potential to be misidentified as a badguy. This is exactly why I have no intention to display a weapon a second longer than absolutely necessary and I am not really inclined to loiter or remain within the most obvious confines of a "scene". My thoughts and prayers are extended to the family of the fallen hero.

[Ignition Override]

It still amazes me that any
Heavy window tinting (cars)…Ever became legal.

Whether or not that was a factor I do t know or care.

A lady years ago in Memphis suffered minor wounds when she was mistaken for somebody else-while driving in southeast Memphis.

Her heavy tinted windows Prevented the thug from knowing that he was aiming at the wrong person ,,, Not his intended target.

But go right ahead and hide behind such windows.

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by Colorado Redneck

When an officer arrived, Hurley was holding Troyke’s AR-15 and the officer opened fire, police said."

When a couple of innocent people die, that's a bad day. The account and video leave a lot of questions. If Hurley was only holding a rifle, why did a PO shoot him? If the PO shot Hurley merely for having a rifle in hand rather than moving in a many one would consider aggressive or ignoring instruction, that's some flavor of homicide.

[RickB]

"Person holding a gun" does not seem like sufficient cause for shooting the guy.

[Scorch]

"Person holding a gun" does not seem like sufficient cause for shooting the guy."Person holding a gun" does not seem like sufficient cause for shooting the guy.

Agreed, and a shooting review board may ding him on that count, and a wrongful death case against the city may be filed. But put yourself in the cop's place: you respond to an active shooter situation without knowing what else is happening at the time. You arrive, you see an armed person holding a rifle. You get out of your patrol car and . . . what? Tell him to raise his hands? If he is the shooter (a logical assumption), then you will be shot at. So, no, you shoot. If you don't, you could be the next victim. Things happen really quickly when adrenaline kicks in.

My take on it is "why was the good guy holding the rifle?" I was told many years ago: if you are involved in a shooting, put the gun down and sit down with your hands visible so the cops don't shoot you when they arrive. You will be roughed up and cuffed and thrown in the back of a car. You will be taken to jail and booked. Your best bet is to be as harmless looking as possible and don't try to argue with the police when they get there.

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by Scorch

But put yourself in the cop's place...

If I shoot someone for holding a rifle, I have every reason to believe that the consequences would extend beyond a strongly worded letter in my HR file.

One of the questions the article doesn't address was whether Hurley was only holding the rifle, or whether he was doing something ambiguous and apt to be misconstrued.

My take on it is "why was the good guy holding the rifle?"

Do you know whether the fellow from who you took it has a friend? How do you maintain control of the rifle if you just set it down? Did Hurley strip the magazine and bolt out of the rifle? Is that what he was doing when he was shot?

There is certainly a downside to holding a weapon when you know POs will be responding to that sort of call.

[RickB]

If you don't, you could be the next victim.

Cops are required to assume that risk.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by RickB

"Person holding a gun" does not seem like sufficient cause for shooting the guy.

And that is why there is an investigation, conducted by a different department.

[Double Naught Spy]

But best to realize that arriving LEOs on an active-shooter scene are
spring-loaded to "stop the threat."

Where the treat is identified as anyone with a gun who isn't in a police uniform.

Agreed, and a shooting review board may ding him on that count, and a wrongful death case against the city may be filed. But put yourself in the cop's place: you respond to an active shooter situation without knowing what else is happening at the time. You arrive, you see an armed person holding a rifle. You get out of your patrol car and . . . what? Tell him to raise his hands? If he is the shooter (a logical assumption), then you will be shot at. So, no, you shoot. If you don't, you could be the next victim. Things happen really quickly when adrenaline kicks in.

Yes, the "Kill them all. Let God sort them out" mentality.

The argument from the officer's side will be similar to ones on the past. There was an active shooter/bad guy in area situation. There was a person with a gun. I was in fear for my life and the citizens' lives. I neutralized the threat.

And then the officer gets off due to qualified immunity.

The officers are supposed to properly assess who is and is not a threat. Yes, their jobs are dangerous. They should not be so paranoid as to think that are the only good guys.