National Bullet Company --- Problems and news

[mahnee]

I placed an order from NBC for 3500 'copperized' bullets on May 27, 2006. Their order confirmation (email) said I would receive my bullets in two to three weeks. It has now been fifty-eight days and still no delivery. I have received the same run-wround emails from "Ken" as have others on this forum: "Behind on plated bullets from manufacturer; Should have your bullets within a week; etc." This morning, after reading the comments on this forum, I emailed Ken and cancelled my order. I got a quick reply stating that my refund would be processed, today. We'll see! I will never, again, try a new supplier without first checking the forums. And remember: No matter how reliable he seems, never give your gun to a monkey!

June 25, 2006 1645 hrs: After giving 'Ken' the entire day to post my refund, I followed Eghad's advice and contacted my credit card company (Capital One) with great success. I consider myself one of the lucky ones - I got my money back.

[T-Bear]

There has got to be somebody that lives by this company. Personally I;ve never order from them but have given them the thought but nothing more. Someone should print this thread out and get the names and emails that have been robbed and give it to the owner of NBC. Looks like he is still in business and really doesn't care for any of you.

[Wrangler5]

After seeing this thread and some similar ones on other forums, I just took NBC off my bookmark list of reloading component sources. Out of sight, out of mind.

[rdp58]

I placed an order at the first of the year from National Bullet Co. The e-mail confirmation said it would be shipped in 2 to 3 weeks. After 4 weeks I called to inquire, promised they would ship out tomorrow. I called for 5 more weeks and got the same answer. I then canceled the order and wanted a refund, after 3 or 4 weeks I contacted my credit card company. Today the credit card company said they would credit my card. I have spent close to 5 months on the deal. The next time I will order my bullets from Midway and get them in less than a week with no hassels.

[Ausserordeutlich]

I just placed an order with Xtreme Bullets, formerly West Coast Bullets, and, so far, everything's going smoothly, as usual. The NBC's "copperized" bullets are crappy copper-washed bullets and are, in my humble opinion, less-than-worthless.

[cpaspr]

and anyone else getting a charge back from your credit card company. Keep a close tab on your cc bills for the next several months. We once had a legitimate dispute where a vendor overcharged my card. We disputed with the issuer and they promptly held up requiring payment for the charge while they researched the issue.

Result of their research? They ignored my factual, documented evidence, and went with the vendor because the vendor said we owed it!

It took eight months, as well as getting the attorney general's office for the credit card issuer's state involved, but we prevailed in not having to pay the overcharge. We still paid the legitimate portion, but it was a major ordeal to force that particular credit card issuer to do the right thing. And the AG's office told us that that particular issuer gets lots of complaints.

Some of them don't give a rat's left and right combined hind quarter for us, the consumers. They just want your money, and they'll charge interest galore until you pay, once they determine that "you do, in fact, owe it". Even if you really don't.

So keep an eye on those statements, and good luck with NBC.

[benedict1]

I think I fell for the same line. I placed two orders during the big "4th of July/Free shipping sale" with these guys. I have also received emails from "ken" I think he is a monkey sitting on a keyboard. I have placed two phone calls and they ship part of my order today--I have a UPS tracking number. How in h--- do they stay in business? I just found this thread and wish I had looked before.

[ledavatar]

Wow, I have to chime in here and say that I had a very similar experience with NBC. At first the prices looked decent, and when I registered on the site I started receiving those 25% - 30% off with free shipping emails every other day from them. The first 25% off sealed the deal for me and I ordered what came out to be $470 worth of loaded ammunition (NBC brass) on 6/24/06.

I called 2 weeks later to see the status of the order and a very nice softspoken gentleman answered the phone and said they should have the order ready in about a week.

A week passed and I called again. This time he said I had a lot of odds & ends in the order (different calibers) and therefore it would take just a few more days.

3 days later - no email, no calls, so I called again. He said he's just finishing up, and I should RECEIVE the order by Monday 7/24. No email with tracking number, even though I specifically asked for it.

I called Monday - he said the order is ready and going to be shipped that day and would send tracking number via email. No email that night.

I called Tuesday 7/25 - he said he doesn't know why it wasn't shipped, but it's POSITIVELY going out that day and I should receive email w/ tracking number. No email that night, and this is when I stumbled onto this thread. I am so glad I read about the similar experiences, because he (Ken?) did seem genuinely nice.

So yesterday 7/26 I called and again he said again it's definitely going out that day. I asked, are you SURE it's going out, because if it's not going out tonight, CANCEL THE ORDER. He said sure.

Today 7/27 I called again, and he scanned through the order and started saying well it looks like you have a lot of odds & ends... I just had to stop him right there and said YOU SAID THE ORDER WAS ALL DONE AND READY TO BE SHIPPED OUT. He paused, and I just said CANCEL THE ORDER. He seemed a bit hesistant but said ok. There was no use in flat out calling him a liar - it would just get me more upset. But make no mistake, he is a LIAR. I have shopped at many places online and never have I seen just blatant cases of LIES. I simply cannot trust this kind of person to reload ammo.

After hearing stories on this thread about NBC not crediting back the funds, I immediately called my credit card company and it was a quick process for a dispute - I should receive the credit in 2 days and if the order gets shipped to me, I can either refuse delivery or accept the package and pay again. There, quick and painless. I can use the extra cash to get myself a Dillon 550B and start reloading.

[KC135]

I read the thread. Did business with NBC last in 2003, very satisified.

Was getting ready to order the next special, a rather large order. This thread saved me problems.

[ledavatar]

Has anyone gotten any orders filled recently by that company? I'm just curious as to what is really going on.

[BluesBear]

I delt with them many years ago when I lived in Kentucky and was always satisfied.


I recently honchoed a group buy for several friends because of their 30% off/free shipping sale.

After the three week ETA has passed I sent them an e'mail.
I received no answer so I opened an inquiry.

A few days later I received this e'mail;

[email protected] to me Jul 22

-- do not edit --

Your order will be shipped this coming week. We were out of a couple items that you ordered.
Sorry for the delay


As you can see that was July 22 and I still haven't heard a peep from them.

Now I have 4 people breathing down my neck looking for 6000 bullets and 1050 rounds of ammo.
Well actually only 5000/650 now since I loaded 500 rounds of .38 at my expense and gave up my remaining stash of .410" SWC to one guy to appease him.



What I really like about their site is the "Track Your Order" feature.
you just type in the last 8 digits of you 12 digit order number and it tells you what's what.
EXCEPT THAT IT TAKES YOU TO THE BLOODY UPS TRACKING SITE!
And guess what, since there IS no tracking number (because nothing has been shipped) IT'S USELESS.

Since I had delt with this company before I didn't think to do a search for recent problems.

Somebody smack me.

[bulletman]

A word from NBC

National Bullet has been going through some hard times lately. Vendors have been back ordering supplies, lead and brass prices have gone through the roof, trying to find good help, all have contributed to the recent back log on getting some orders shipped in a timely manner. Many orders are still shipping in a day or two of receipt and yes, some have been delayed a long time. Customer service has not been what it should be, but we are really trying to resolve these issues.

National Bullet Co has been in business for over 30 years and we plan on staying in business for many more years. We are trying to get back to normal, and get shipping times to a few days, but it has been very hard when some supplies keep getting back ordered.

National Bullet Co. hasn't been in business for 30 plus years because we cheat our customers. We try to do everything possible to keep our customers satisfied, but this has not been always possible lately. There have been complaints about no replies from emails. We always try to answer your emails, but some of the emails we send never make it back. We get the biggest complaints from customers using yahoo that they never get a reply. If you go to our website and click on contact us, we have a support ticket now that should help with better communication with our customers and put an end to the lost emails.

We ask that you bear with us through out these tough times and help us get back to normal.

Thanks for listening

[skeet47]

Berry's does not offer free shipping for licensed reloaders buying wholesale.They do offer free shipping for non-licensed purchasers but the difference you pay is much greater than the shipping.Find a reloader with a class 06 FFL for your bullets,powder, and primers.The savings is phenomenal.I buy Hodgdon Titegroup for 9.87 per LB,primers are around $12.50 per 1000 and Berry's bullets are about 40% cheaper.Surely someone in your club has an FFL for reloading.

[DonR101395]

Bulletman,
I sent a link to this thread to NBC on Jun 13 and you respond on Aug 12. Two months to post a response, about the same amount of time it takes to get an order filled. I think I'll pass on future business with NBC. I understand backordering supplies etc. but that doesn't excuse lack of communication and poor customer service.

[YellowLab]

I have no dog in this fight but WOW.

Helpful business tip (I ran my own business - ISP - for 7 years)..

IF you are going to post information about your business.. DON'T USE A CRAPPY LOGIN LIKE BULLETMAN. WIth 1 post you could be a throw away account just to fuel the flames.

TO all the NBC customers (well... since you were never sold anything calling you a customer is a stretch) get the CC co on the line and drop NBC like a bad habit.

[BluesBear]

I think the reason they chose to post now is probably due to my recent telephone calls to Ken and Allan.

I made a big point over the lack of communication I have experienced. They both gave me the spam filter excuse. They say that certain words such as bullets can trip the filter.
But since I check my spam filter every day that's not a problem with my system.
I also pointed out to them that their advertisments seem to reach me on a weekly (weakly) basis.

Neither had an explanation for NEVER answering any of my e'mails.


I first spoke with Allan (and I do appologize if I am not using the correct spelling of his name) a week ago today (saturday). He told me that my order would be shipped Tuesday.

On Wednesday I spoke with Ken who told me that the plated bullets part of my order would arrive on Thursday and my order would be shipped ASAP.

One of the things I tried to impress upon Ken was that if they had a problem with their plater (which is their problem not mine) that a simple note or phone call saying there would be a delay would have been fine. That would have given me an option to say;

- Okay I'll wait.
- Send what you have and backorder the rest.
- Send what you have and cancel the rest.
- Substitute X for Y.

I would NOT have for a moment thought of cancelling.
Which is what I am afraid will be happening Monday.


The call ended up with me telling Ken that if the plated bullets didn't arrive Thursday to substutite unplated ones (which he assured me were in stock) and to ship them Friday.

I told him that if I didn't have a UPS tracking number by Friday afternoon I wanted the order canceled.
Well I was longer at the spine doctors yesterday that I expected so I didn't call them.
However I will be ringing their phone very early Monday morning.
If they cannot give me a tracking number then I will be cancelling the order and demanding an immediate credit to the debit card used for the order.
I will then be meeting with my bank branch manager as soon as they open to insure this is done.

They took the money out of the account immediately upon receiving the order so they can bloody well replace it just as fast.

The thing is I really, really hope they have a tracking number for me Monday morning. I was always pleased with their product in the past and they offer at least one bullet style that I can't get anywhere else. Plus the price is very good.


It seems to me that if they are having so many problem that they might be better served to curtail their very nice sales until they can catch up.


I was discussing this with one of the guys who chipped in for this order (the one that's NOT breathing down my neck wanting to know where in the he77 their booger-flicking bullets are) and his theory was that they are so busy casting and selling Cowboy bullets by the boxcar load that they can't be bothered with other stuff.

I really hope this isn't the case. If so then they just lost a LOT of future orders.

Since I purchased a lot of bullets from them years ago I am very disappointed in the state of current events.
I sincerely hope Ken and Alan can get their act together.
I really hate to see a good company flush itself.

[Ausserordeutlich]

It's unconscionable that they'd charge your card prior to shipping the order! That's a shabby, shady way to do business. Sounds like those guys at Botach, who immediately charge cards, whether they have product to ship or not.

[brickeyee]

Charging before shipping is generaly illegal, and can get the business in a whole lot of hot water.
Contact your bank immediately and have the charge contested.
Never use a debit card for purchases. Use a regular credit card.
If you can use the mail as part of the order placement you can get the postal inspectors on to the case in a flash. There is a postal regulation that prohibits charging before shipping.

[BluesBear]

Unlawful or not, according to the bank statement, the Visa Debit Card was charged within 24 hours of the order being placed.

However according to the UPS tracking website my order was shipped Thursday August 10 (?the day I last spoke with Ken?) with an arrival date of Wednesday August 16. (yeah shipping to Seattle is slow)

So, hopefully the order will be complete and all will be well.


However an e'mail saying my order had been shipped would have been nice.

[BluesBear]

According to my order confirmation the shipping weight of my order is 175.20 pounds.

According to UPS there are three packages inching their way across the fruited plains weighing in at 30.60 pounds, 47.60 pounds and 31 pounds.

To me that adds up to 109.20 pounds. My calculations for bullet weights alone is over 140.

So it looks to me like I ain't getting it all at once.


Think I should call them Monday or should I wait for them to contact me?

Since there are multiple boxes involved, why don't they ship the bullets in the USPS flat rate boxes and the loaded ammunition via UPS? Seems to me it would save them a whole bunch of money.
But then why should I care? I got in on the free shipping deal.

[brickeyee]

"why don't they ship the bullets in the USPS flat rate boxes and the loaded ammunition via UPS?"

Maybe cause USPS does not pick up flat rate boxes off the loading dock?

[Craig M. Arnold]

I had the same experience with NBC as most all of you. Sometime ago, I ordered 9MM Mak and 45acp copper washed bullets. They charged my credit card right away, but never shipped the bullets. I tried to contact NBC for weeks and got no response. Only after I threathen contacting the credit card company did I get an e-mail. A bunch of empty promises. Well to make a long story short, I did finally get the 9MM Mak bullets and SOME of the 45acp bullets. However, they looked like copper painted bullets. The worst bullets that I have ever seen.

I really hate to bad mouth people, so I never posted anything about NBC. I guess I should have warned people and maybe a few folks would have been saved some grief.

I just can't believe that NBC is still in business with all this going on.

I hope everything works out for all that are still waiting for a refund or their bullets.

Best regards.

[BluesBear]

Maybe cause USPS does not pick up flat rate boxes off the loading dock?

Perhaps but they sure do tout the "advantages" of using the flat rate USPS shipping option.

It's prominently displayed and mentioned in several places on their website.

And in the e'mail advertisements I received several time in the past few days;

Added Bonus
Free Shipping on any order over $150.00
We can ship you up to 1500 bullets (not ammo) through US Priority Mail for
only $9.00. Ammo must be shipped by UPS due to postal regulations.

USPS picks up packages from my doorstep any day I call and ask them to.


I'm still curious about the missing 65 pounds.

[Ausserordeutlich]

Sorry, Brick, but you're disseminating bad info. VISA debit (or "check") cards have exactly the same protections as VISA credit cards.

Postal regulations have absolutely nothing to do with whether a vendor charges your cc account prior to shipping. You just made that up, didn't you?

[BluesBear]

I opened another e-ticket today asking about my missing 65 pounds.
Let's see if they respond.