"my new brasser"- (smirk)

CaptainCrossman · June 2, 2009, 06:04 AM

I recently picked up an 1860 Army brass frame gun for only $65, in mint condition- seller was shooting it, the hammer stuck, and he never shot it again. It still in "jammed" condition.

this will be a nice specimen to do some torture tests on, with full loads of blackpowder and pyrodex, and see how many shots it takes before the arbor pulls out of the frame

or, perhaps it will hold up- we'll see- all I really needed was the barrel and cylinder for another 1860 Army I'm building

nice gun though, it appears to me that perhaps the arbor is already coming out of the frame, and that's why it jammed, but we'll see when I get it and disect it

CaptainCrossman · June 2, 2009, 06:05 AM

looks like a rather big gap already, between cylinder and recoil shield- I'd bet the arbor is beginning to pull forward on this gun

we'll see

robhof · June 2, 2009, 11:34 AM

From the pic., it looks like the middle of the cylinder is snug on the frame notch. At any rate you got a bargain; even if just for parts.

CaptainCrossman · June 2, 2009, 12:26 PM

I asked the seller if the arbor was loose, he removed the barrel and said the arbor appears tight in the frame. So perhaps the arbor/frame interface is ok.

yes, a replacement barrel or cylinder alone, is $50-$60 at Dixie, so it was worth it

this may have the same problem as the previous 1860 Army and Walker had. It's really a simple fix, if it's that. I hope it is.

Regardless, this gun will either live or die, with full chambers of powder. It will be loaded for bear and put through it's paces, just like any other steel frame gun. If it breaks, I'll post the results here.

ClemBert · June 2, 2009, 12:44 PM

Say it ain't so Captain...those things are softer than butter.

SamStafford · June 2, 2009, 02:31 PM

Capt. that is a nice gun.

arcticap · June 2, 2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

From the pic., it looks like the middle of the cylinder is snug on the frame notch.

The barrel looks like it's bent downward.
Is the arbor bent or is it my monitor screen?

I wonder if the .44 brasser's cylinders were loaded off of the frame if that would save their arbors from having too much pressure exerted on them during loading?
Maybe then the frames/arbors would last longer.
If so the important question to answer then becomes which puts more stress on the brass frame, loading or shooting?
Or if the .44 brassers were loaded on the frame with the minimum size .451 balls, the stress on the loading lever and arbor might be lessened enough to save it from some of the accumulated damage from repeated loading stress?
Even shooting higher charges of a lower velocity powder like APP might help to reduce some of the frame stress while still allowing larger charges to be enjoyed. And it's not that APP is such a weaker powder when fired from rifle length barrels, but it could just be that it only shoots somewhat softer from revolver length barrels.
Too bad that it's so difficult to objectively measure the relative recoil of different powders and loads out of a brasser, and also the amount of force being exerted during ramming different sizes & types of projectiles.

Missoura Don · June 2, 2009, 04:30 PM

A man's possession's is his to do what he wants to with, but, for the life of me, I can't figure out why someone would just up and destroy, or at least attempt to do so, a fine revolver like that, brasser or not. Hell Capn, I'll send ya an $80 money order for it right now!

RRR · June 2, 2009, 05:57 PM

"A man's possession's is his to do what he wants to with, but, for the life of me, I can't figure out why someone would just up and destroy, or at least attempt to do so, a fine revolver like that, brasser or not." The man has some kind of blankon for brass frame repos. Kinda of creepy. i really can't say all the much I blowed up a Ruger Old Army (200 year) just to see if it could be done. Never really shot good so what the heck, But! I was in my youth.

CaptainCrossman · June 2, 2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

A man's possession's is his to do what he wants to with, but, for the life of me, I can't figure out why someone would just up and destroy, or at least attempt to do so, a fine revolver like that, brasser or not. Hell Capn, I'll send ya an $80 money order for it right now!

it just shipped today, did not arrive here yet- those pics are what the seller sent me by email

I get as much or more enjoyment from fixing these guns, as actually shooting them. Wait until it arrives, after I repair it, perhaps we can work a deal.

joelberg · June 3, 2009, 04:40 AM

Aw I wanted to see how much it took for CC to destroy it!

CaptainCrossman · June 3, 2009, 08:42 AM

not to worry, last night I went to look at a 3rd Model Dragoon for sale, which I always wanted for decades but never could find at a good price- and I ended up buying a pile of guns and stuff from the seller

so we will get to do our brasser torture test, one way or another

SamStafford · June 3, 2009, 09:54 AM

CaptainCrossman · June 5, 2009, 11:33 AM

ok got the 1860 brasser yesterday, it's a BB dated coded ASM-CVA imported

barrel has a bulge in it about 2" back from the muzzle, looks like they got a ball stuck in the barrel, then fired it again and almost blew the barrel apart. The bulge is visible and you can easily feel it by running your finger over it.

cylinder was rusted fast to the arbor- ran it under hot water, and tapped it off with a few light hits

trigger/bolt spring was broken

hand was totally disconnected from the hammer, and facing downward when I removed trigger guard- it's not even a Colt hand, it's a Remington hand someone tried to put in (not stud on hand, just a hole for a screw to attach it, i.e. Remington)

arbor is loose in the frame- no front/back play but it turns about 1/8 turn either way- small locking pin is missing , there's a hole there where it used to be

fortunately I had a spare ASM barrel that I picked up for only $20 a few months ago- although 1/2" shorter. I put that on, it fits nicely. Made a new lock pin from a small hardened screw, forced that in the arbor lock pin hole, and ground the head off- then peened it in place with a small center punch- arbor is now tight

replaced the incorrect hand and trigger/bolt spring with spares I had- the gun now cocks, times, action working, there is a neglible barrel gap.

I know this gun will shoot apart in no time with full chambers of black, so I'm going to do a few mods to it first, to strengthen it. I've shot these brassers loose in few days before, nothing mysterious about that. After the mods, then I'll do the torture test, and see if the gun lives- stay tuned.

arcticap · June 5, 2009, 11:54 AM

Now that you mention it, the barrel bulge is detectable in the picture just to the rear of ramming lever latch.

SamStafford · June 5, 2009, 12:01 PM

CC, is the gun like that because the other guy didn't know how to load and shoot the pistol?

CaptainCrossman · June 5, 2009, 09:12 PM

hmmm...good question- maybe he was trying to ram the ball down the barrel, instead of in the cylinders, could be. but heck, even if he did that, he'd still be able to drive the ball out of the barrel with an iron rod, without damaging it.

the gun was fired and not cleaned, the cylinder was rusted/seized to the arbor- not really bad, but bad enough that it would not spin and had to be heated with hot water to remove it.

today I finished the arbor-to-frame mod, and started cobbling up the other mod- should finish up tomorrow

then it's ready to "clickity-click-KABOOM !"

EmptyHull · June 5, 2009, 09:55 PM

Good luck!

Tim

June 2, 2009, 11:34 AM	#3
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof From the pic., it looks like the middle of the cylinder is snug on the frame notch. At any rate you got a bargain; even if just for parts.

June 2, 2009, 12:26 PM	#4
CaptainCrossman Junior member Join Date: April 2, 2009 Posts: 381	I asked the seller if the arbor was loose, he removed the barrel and said the arbor appears tight in the frame. So perhaps the arbor/frame interface is ok. yes, a replacement barrel or cylinder alone, is $50-$60 at Dixie, so it was worth it this may have the same problem as the previous 1860 Army and Walker had. It's really a simple fix, if it's that. I hope it is. Regardless, this gun will either live or die, with full chambers of powder. It will be loaded for bear and put through it's paces, just like any other steel frame gun. If it breaks, I'll post the results here.

June 2, 2009, 12:44 PM	#5
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	Say it ain't so Captain...those things are softer than butter.

June 2, 2009, 02:31 PM	#6
SamStafford Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Portageville, MO. 63873 Posts: 162	Capt. that is a nice gun.

June 2, 2009, 04:30 PM	#8
Missoura Don Member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Missoura Posts: 80	A man's possession's is his to do what he wants to with, but, for the life of me, I can't figure out why someone would just up and destroy, or at least attempt to do so, a fine revolver like that, brasser or not. Hell Capn, I'll send ya an $80 money order for it right now!

June 2, 2009, 05:57 PM	#9
RRR Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2005 Posts: 100	"A man's possession's is his to do what he wants to with, but, for the life of me, I can't figure out why someone would just up and destroy, or at least attempt to do so, a fine revolver like that, brasser or not." The man has some kind of blankon for brass frame repos. Kinda of creepy. i really can't say all the much I blowed up a Ruger Old Army (200 year) just to see if it could be done. Never really shot good so what the heck, But! I was in my youth.

June 3, 2009, 04:40 AM	#11
joelberg Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 41	Aw I wanted to see how much it took for CC to destroy it!

June 3, 2009, 08:42 AM	#12
CaptainCrossman Junior member Join Date: April 2, 2009 Posts: 381	not to worry, last night I went to look at a 3rd Model Dragoon for sale, which I always wanted for decades but never could find at a good price- and I ended up buying a pile of guns and stuff from the seller so we will get to do our brasser torture test, one way or another

June 3, 2009, 09:54 AM	#13
SamStafford Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Portageville, MO. 63873 Posts: 162

June 5, 2009, 11:33 AM	#14
CaptainCrossman Junior member Join Date: April 2, 2009 Posts: 381	ok got the 1860 brasser yesterday, it's a BB dated coded ASM-CVA imported barrel has a bulge in it about 2" back from the muzzle, looks like they got a ball stuck in the barrel, then fired it again and almost blew the barrel apart. The bulge is visible and you can easily feel it by running your finger over it. cylinder was rusted fast to the arbor- ran it under hot water, and tapped it off with a few light hits trigger/bolt spring was broken hand was totally disconnected from the hammer, and facing downward when I removed trigger guard- it's not even a Colt hand, it's a Remington hand someone tried to put in (not stud on hand, just a hole for a screw to attach it, i.e. Remington) arbor is loose in the frame- no front/back play but it turns about 1/8 turn either way- small locking pin is missing , there's a hole there where it used to be fortunately I had a spare ASM barrel that I picked up for only $20 a few months ago- although 1/2" shorter. I put that on, it fits nicely. Made a new lock pin from a small hardened screw, forced that in the arbor lock pin hole, and ground the head off- then peened it in place with a small center punch- arbor is now tight replaced the incorrect hand and trigger/bolt spring with spares I had- the gun now cocks, times, action working, there is a neglible barrel gap. I know this gun will shoot apart in no time with full chambers of black, so I'm going to do a few mods to it first, to strengthen it. I've shot these brassers loose in few days before, nothing mysterious about that. After the mods, then I'll do the torture test, and see if the gun lives- stay tuned.

June 5, 2009, 11:54 AM	#15
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Now that you mention it, the barrel bulge is detectable in the picture just to the rear of ramming lever latch.

June 5, 2009, 12:01 PM	#16
SamStafford Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Portageville, MO. 63873 Posts: 162	CC, is the gun like that because the other guy didn't know how to load and shoot the pistol?

June 5, 2009, 09:12 PM	#17
CaptainCrossman Junior member Join Date: April 2, 2009 Posts: 381	hmmm...good question- maybe he was trying to ram the ball down the barrel, instead of in the cylinders, could be. but heck, even if he did that, he'd still be able to drive the ball out of the barrel with an iron rod, without damaging it. the gun was fired and not cleaned, the cylinder was rusted/seized to the arbor- not really bad, but bad enough that it would not spin and had to be heated with hot water to remove it. today I finished the arbor-to-frame mod, and started cobbling up the other mod- should finish up tomorrow then it's ready to "clickity-click-KABOOM !"

June 5, 2009, 09:55 PM	#18
EmptyHull Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Posts: 145	Good luck! Tim