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Old April 1, 2023, 05:49 PM   #26
stagpanther
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It sounds counterintuitive--but I would say a high power scope with high clarity glass is essential for high accuracy/small target 22LR shooting at anything from 50 yds out. My highest power top tier scope spends most of its time on my 22lr rifles.
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Old April 1, 2023, 08:13 PM   #27
tangolima
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The craziest target I have heard so far is 0.25moa at 1000yd (center fire of course). Even with that I can't convince myself that I need anything over 20x. I even think I do better to stay below 15x. I can't imagine shooting with like 40x50. The exist pupil is so tiny to be any good.

Went to range yesterday. Set my soda can target at 150yd. 22lr rifle has a $50 fixed 4x32 on it. Being a cheap scope the reticle stadia is kinda thick, probably 1/8moa. But the soda can was totally visible. I think I hit it 50% of the time. Windage was the challenge. I had to adjust the hold over based on the wind perceived. I switched to AR in 6.5 grendel. It had a proper variable power scope set to 10x. Sure I could read the logo on the can. I could hit the target close to 100%. If I were to switch scopes between those 2 rifles, I most certainly would get the similar scores.

-TL

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Old April 7, 2023, 10:54 PM   #28
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Continued with my 22lr "training" with 4x32 scope. I think I'm graduating from 150yd and will move on to 200yd (there aren't any target stands between 150yd and 200yd).

Today I could actually spot the bullet in flight. That's a good thing. I didn't blink when the rifle went off. We have a trap range with the backstop slope littered with clay ducks. I usually save 20 rounds or so to help clear the slope. The distance is 100m, or 110yd. I crack one piece and will keep hitting the smaller pieces. Some of them were so small that they were mostly obscured by the cross hairs of the reticle. Wind was blowing. I needed to make constant adjustments to the hold over. I'm trying to develop an instinct to read the wind.

-TL

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Old April 8, 2023, 12:12 PM   #29
Rimfire5
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Many years ago, I did some testing with .22LR target rifles at 50 and 100 yards with different scope powers to determine what was best for target shooting accuracy.

For both 50 and 100 yards, I used 0.5-inch diamond targets on a vertical/horizontal grid that was 0.050 wide.
I purposely set the target reticle to have the POI hit in each diamond so it didn't mess up my point of aim at the lower tip of the diamond.

I started with 9X at 50 yards that I was used to shooting.
Then I tried 15X and reduced the group sizes to 85%
Then I tried 24X and reduced the group sizes to 72%
Then I tried 36X with a target reticle and the group average didn't change appreciably so I concluded that the 36X didn't have an advantage at 50 yards.

However, at 100 yards the 36X scope with a target reticle did have an advantage with consistency and ease of seeing the target aim point.

As a result, I now use T-36X Weaver fixed power scopes on all my target .22 rifles.
I've tested 58 different ammos at 50 yards.
After shooting over 6,000 5-round groups at 50 yards, and only the 10 better performing ammos at 100 yards, I have found that aiming small at an aim point of 0.050 is much more conducive to achieving small groups than trying to guess where that aim point is behind a reticle that covers the aim point with a lower power scope.

These days, all 4 of my .22 LR target rifles are equipped with Weaver T-36 scopes fitted with their competition reticle dials - great for adjusting the scope quickly when shifting from 50 to 100 yards.

All my target centerfire rifles have target reticles on either 36x42mm Sightrons or NightForce 8-32x56mm Benchrest NightForce scopes.
My best shooting centerfire rifles have the NF scopes because the brighter optics with the larger front optics work best for morning shooting in the winter.

The 32X NightForce scopes with 4x lower power actually produce slightly better results than the 36X Sightrons when I switched between scopes. Group sizes were better by about 10%, even with the lower power. Bright clear sight pictures apparently are more productive as long as you don't cover the aim point with the reticle.

I probably would not have suspected these results when I was younger when my eyes were better. As I got older, the value of 'aim small/hit small' became more apparent.
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Old April 8, 2023, 01:46 PM   #30
tangolima
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Thanks Rimfire. Great that 36x works for you. But I'm afraid it probably won't work for me. Several reasons. The POA will dance around so much that I will have sea sick. It is true that it is the real indication of my ability to hold sight picture, but it becomes counterproductive to help correct it. The exist pupil is too small. Even with 50mm objective lens, the exist pupil diameter will be well smaller 2mm. The target will appear dim and with vignetting except with young eye and bright day light.

0.5moa diamond is mighty small indeed. But still I will stay below 20x. Most likely 10x.

Shooting tiny group is cool. But hitting target of size is what counts. Small group off target is a consistent miss. Slightly bigger group on target is hit with good chance. It is always a compromise and hence an optimum combination exists.

I like this way to understand it. Given a target, what is the distance I can hit it consistently with 1x magnification (say open sight)? Scope magnification just multiplies this distance. Say I can hit soda can with iron at 50yd, 4x magnification will enable me to do the same at 200yd, give and take. It makes sense. Follow the same logic, I don't really need much magnification.

-TL

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Old April 9, 2023, 09:00 AM   #31
Rimfire5
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If I wasn't shooting off a bench with a really solid F-class bipod and a solid rear bag, I would never even attempt to use more than 15x or 20X scope.
At my age, vibration is a fact of life.
For me, the F-Class bipod from Sinclair actually is steadier than my very expensive Sinclair adjustable rest so I have come to depend upon it for all my benchrest shooting.

For me, with that really solid set of rests, vibration is not a factor even with 32X or 36X scopes. On warm days though, heat mirages require some patience.
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Old April 9, 2023, 11:46 AM   #32
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Something your all forgetting.
Unless it's a fixed power scope, the magnification can be turned down.

For hunting i use 4-12 and 4-16 power scopes.

For match shooting i have 2 that are 4-20 power, and one that is 10-50.
Quality of glass does indeed make a HUGE difference! No doubt about it!!

But when your shooting a 223 and need to see the bullet hole, you'll quickly want more magnification!
You can always turn it down for mirage and such.
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Old April 30, 2023, 02:30 PM   #33
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I think I have found a reason for me to crank up magnification.

I have been dial in corrections on turrets. With that low magnification has worked pretty well. All my scopes have had simple reticles, duplex, mil-dot, moa hash etc.

I recently purchased a FFP scope with Christmas tree reticle, and started practicing holding over using the reticle. I found it rather difficult to make out reticle hashes at 10x. Much better at 12x. Again it is not about seeing the target. I can see where I want to hit even at 4x. It is probably issue specific to FFP. Reticle remains the same in SFP.

I started liking holding over with reticle. It is fast and perhaps more accurate as it doesn't have tracking errors.

-TL

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Old April 30, 2023, 05:17 PM   #34
Kreyzhorse
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Give me a 4X or 6X and I'm good to go... anything higher and I can't deal with the shakes I cause. Sometimes less is more.
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Old April 30, 2023, 05:30 PM   #35
tangolima
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreyzhorse View Post
Give me a 4X or 6X and I'm good to go... anything higher and I can't deal with the shakes I cause. Sometimes less is more.
That's what I have been doing. 4x fixed mostly. I also have 10x fixed for center fire longer range target shooting. Even with variable power I usually keep it unchanged below 10x.

-TL

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Old April 30, 2023, 08:26 PM   #36
kmw1954
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I have an 8-34X56 FFP that I purchased for use in a Benchrest type league which many times we are shooting at .5MOA size targets for scores. I am now looking at a 8-40X50 SFP scope with 1/8 MOA clicks.
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Old May 25, 2023, 11:01 AM   #37
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It's like anything else, use the right tool for the job. I use my 24X for precision shooting. Normally I'll shoot the individual 1" squares on zeroing target, starting upper right going through to the left bottom. This lets me see where the temperature of the barrel and rifle come into play, or wind or whatever.

Sometimes I will use the boxes on a zeroing target to spell words to entertain the kiddies.

For practical purposes such as hunting, 24X is too much where I hunt these days. But long distance in a hide over open ground? Which vertebre do you want to shoot? Drops them dead on the spot, should be relatively painless and doesn't waste an ounce of meat. It's important to be accurate with a neck shot, don't want to miss and hit the throat.
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Old June 7, 2023, 10:21 AM   #38
tangolima
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Picked up on ebay an used valiant lynx 4x32 AO with illuminated mildot reticle for $40. It is a brand from Czech republic. The scope was made in China. The optics is top-notch clear. Exposed turrets have very nice tight clicks. Tracking seems good too.

Originally I plan to mount it on another .22lr rifle. I will save it for better use.

I now own 3 scopes with fixed magnification; 2 4x and 1 10x. They work great.

-TL

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