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Old Today, 12:15 PM   #76
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Here's what it looks like when someone gets it wrong.

The man wearing orange in the mugshot is a "good guy" --the city commissioner for Lakeland, FL, a strong advocate of gun ownership and the owner of a community business. He shot a "bad guy" (a person with a felony criminal record) who was committing a crime (shoplifting) and who had a potentially deadly weapon on his person (hatchet). But he has resigned his position, and is in jail without bond, charged with murder because his actions in the video clearly show that he was not in any danger.
That is a pretty rude and cold wake-up call to a lot of folks who think that having a gun in their hands automatically gives them a Superman cape too. Tend to see that kind of folk a lot at gun shops. Usually young, energetic and more than a little naive on just how serious the consequences of misusing a weapon can be. In even legit self-defense situations, you are straddling a very fine line between actual justified SD and murder or manslaughter. If a guy is charging at you with a hatchet and you blast him, that may be legit SD. Shoot him again after he's down? Now that will get you a murder charge. Not just for civvies but even for cops too. Many high profile cases recently about LE who have shot suspects as they were fleeing or continued to use "pain compliance" techniques against suspects who were already restrained and cuffed. Even if the officers in these cases beat the raps and avoided jail time, many careers were ended and many guys went bankrupt after all the legal fees were paid.

In China there are cases when real professional martial artists have used excessive force against assailants in situations that were actually SD, but the problem was these guys used too much force and ended up injuring or killing the perps and they were prosecuted much more severely than a normal civilian without such martial training would have been in the same scenario. I have a cousin who worked in Japan for a while for a major tech firm and he told me a story a few years back about one of the project managers in his department. The man was a black belt in either TKD or karate and got into a confrontation with a Yakuza who tried to seduce his wife. During the fight the guy "death-kicked" the Yakuza into a coma and he was practically destroyed by the law after that. Lost his job, sentenced to prison. Really stiff sentence too. Fines, medical compensation. Lost everything, and it didn't help that the comatose guy had a switchblade knife in his pocket. And yes the Yakuza are scary people, everybody knows that, but in THAT case, the TKD master used unnecessary force in a situation that did not require such force. Even if, and when that guy gets out of prison, and thats gonna be in a pretty long time, he is going to be looking over his shoulder and into every dark corner for the rest of his life. Yakuza are not known for their mercy, or short memories and they get quite creative when dealing with folks who pissed them off.
Climb onto the saddle and ride with me through the last remaining Wild West frontier in the world. Where a man is judged solely by his actions, and every action carries grave consequences.

Last edited by Rachen; Today at 12:35 PM.
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Old Today, 02:45 PM   #77
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If Askins was a psychopath then so is every sniper, every soldier who actually drew a bead on an enemy soldier, used a bayonet or a knife, etc. As Massad Ayoob wrote, he was not the type of guy you'd want to get drunk with, but you'd want him by your side in a dark alley, a foxhole, etc. I note that Jeff Cooper scoffed at the idea of PTSD. And Charlie noted that the gunfights in his Border Patrol days were all at close range and with no warning.
And real combat is a very fluid and dynamic thing, the only real rule is you have to prevail.
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Old Today, 02:59 PM   #78
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SIGSHR; now you have done it... thrown fuel on the fire! I thought that old piece of birch wood had burned itself out and was just smoldering embers. Defending Askins on here, even slightly... is like defending Bill Cosby at a Feminist march.

Last edited by shurshot; Today at 04:46 PM.
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Old Today, 03:19 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by SIGSHR View Post
If Askins was a psychopath then so is every sniper, every soldier who actually drew a bead on an enemy soldier, used a bayonet or a knife, etc.
I'm just a spectator to what this has devolved into, but this claim seems baffling to me. There are behaviors described here that are not in fact what "every" soldier does and there are international laws specifically for those reasons.

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Old Today, 04:12 PM   #80
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The question had to do with handguns and distance. Let us leave the discussion of Askins and his character and behavior to some other venue.
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Old Today, 04:44 PM   #81
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Those here that choose to carry concealed, myself included are not soldiers. Nor are we cops.
We are citizens that choose to carry a tool which may be needed to defend ourselves and hopefully prevent injury to ourselves and perhaps others.

It really is that simple. The fact that we have the tool does not imply that we must use that tool. The tool offers nothing in and of itself. No more so than owning a paintbrush making us artists.

For me the greatest challenge is not using the tool, but knowing with certainty that it is time to do so.

Those young guys hanging at the gun shop mentioned earlier? There are many dangerous drugs, the most dangerous one? Testosterone.
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