7.65 Luger

[Doc Hoy]

I have an opportunity on a VGC Luger from Erfurt. Clip matches the frame number. 600.00 for pistol and magazine. Holster is not from a Luger but fits the pistol.

Brass is about .20 a piece. Three die set from lee is under 30 bucks.

Any thoughts.

[mapsjanhere]

Erfurt was a government arsenal, didn't realize they made commercial 7.65 guns. Do you have pictures? On the other hand, $600 is a decent price for any shooting 08.

[gyvel]

Sounds like a gun that has been rebarrelled. You could always rebarrel it back to 9mm.

[Doc Hoy]

No photos yet. I am going to visit it again tomorrow.

I don't think I am afraid of loading the rounds. I will likely look at it as a shooter.

As a collector I am not very discriminating. I am better described as an accumulator.

[James K]

It is probably a 1920-era rebarrel. After WWI, Germany was prohibited from making pistols in the 9mm military caliber except under strict control and limits. But the country needed "hard" money desperately, so companies took the tons of Lugers available and rebarrelled them to 7.65x21, the original Luger caliber, for export to the U.S. and other countries. Collectors call them "the 1920 commericals".

Since the guns were refinished at the time of conversion, most are in quite good shape, with nice rust blue and "straw" color on the trigger, safety and ejector. There is some collector interest in those guns, but much less than in original guns.

The 7.65 Luger is a very nice cartridge; reliability is excellent due to the shape, and recoil is light. It is much used in Europe in countries where the 9mm is banned as a military caliber, and was the Swiss standard caliber until some years after WWII. Both SIG and Benelli have chambered guns for it, and Colt has made the lightweight Commander for it, also, for export.

Jim

[RickB]

I've been loading for a 1920 Commercial for about twenty years.
Compared to loading a straight-walled round on carbide dies, loading .30 Luger is a pain.
Lube-size-clean-trim if necessary-prime-powder-seat bullet-crimp.
Groove diameter is .3095", so appropriate bullets are not always easy to find.
I shoot about 100 rounds a year, so it's not a major inconvenience to carefully assemble that many rounds, and shooting Lugers is fun.
They are extremely accurate, if you have a trigger that allows the gun to be shot with best accuracy.

[mapsjanhere]

If it went through a period rebarrel with appropriate markings the price is good (to the point of "pm me if it falls through )

[James K]

I never loaded a whole lot of .30 Luger, but I used 100 grain Speer "plinker" bullets and they worked fine (the factory bullet is 93 grains). I now forget the powder charge, but I am pretty sure it was Bullseye. As for bullet diameter, factory bullets run .308, so the main problem is getting the right weight or close to it.

Jim

[44 AMP]

Just FYI, Standard Catalog of Luger (Davis 2006) lists a 1920 Commercial in VG condition at $1000. (4" barrel)

It also says the manufacturer was DWM. However another section of the book says Erfurt Lugers may have been involved in the 1920 rework.

$600 for an intact functional Luger is a good price these days, even a Frankengun. VG condition and matching mag (check gun for other matching #s when you see it) adds to value, maybe a lot.

good pics of all marking would be great, but a good explanation of the marks without pics will still help ID which Luger this might be.

If I didn't already have a couple of Lugers to sate my lust, I would jump on it at that price, sight unseen.

[Mike Irwin]

Hey Doc, if you don't buy it, let me know, I might be interested.

[James K]

The 1920 commercials that were converted from military pistols can be either DWM or Erfurt, though most I have seen were DWM. (Those were the only German makers in the WWI era.)

Jim

[spacecoast]

Not that it makes a difference on a mixmaster gun, but Erfurts dated 1911-14 are rarer than 1916-18 (there are none with a chamber date of 1915 recorded).

I have a 1913 Erfurt that was arsenal reworked at some point, likely by Mauser, and received a small amount of supplemental rust bluing, new (matching numbered) takedown lever, new grip screws, etc. 1913 was an interesting year for Erfurts, because they started out with no stock lug and no holdopen latch. Later in the year the holdopen was added in manufacturing and the stock lug was also incorporated. Many earlier guns were reworked to add the holdopen and the right side of the frame was marked with a small Erfurt proof to the upper left of the trigger. My shooter Erfurt has a scrubbed chamber (no date) that was likely made in 1918 from the serial number.

Almost all the parts on an original Erfurt will have the Erfurt proof, including the grips (inside) and grip screws. Probably the most proofed and inspection-marked handguns ever made.

[Death from Afar]

What is the nu,ber on the top of the chamber? I am at work, so will chase up my luger books and see what i can find out.

Great, great pistols. Very addictive.

[kilimanjaro]

You're getting a 40% discount, and a period holster to boot. Buy it today.

[Doc Hoy]

I have turned the deal over to another forum member.

Not that I think the pistol isn't worth it, I am pretty sure it is.

It is just that I have been spending an awful lot of money of firearms lately. Now we have two renters who failed to pay rent. It'll take a coupla months to evict. Too much of a hit to the budget.

[kilimanjaro]

Gun Buyers Rules:

1. Don't spend money you don't have.
2. If you want it, buy it.
3. If in doubt, Rule No. 1 applies.

Being a landlord can be a great wealth builder, but sometimes it's a real pain in the neck. Been there, done that.

Hope they don't wreck the places, to add insult to injury.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I've shot a coworker's 7.65, very nice gun. I've liked the ergonomics and recoil was nothing.

[Doc Hoy]

I absolutely want one but this is just not the right time.

Not certain I could tell you why but I would prefer 9mm. Maybe because I already load 9mm and if I bought a 7.65 I'd have to get into yet another caliber.

[bedbugbilly]

kilimanjaro . . . .

Wiser words were never spoken . . . been there and done that as well with some commercial property. Funny . . . I was brought up to treat other people's property with respect and like it was my own . . . I had several renters who obviously never learned such things.

Doc . . . you[ll run across another one out there when the time is right . . . until then, I know you have lots of "shooters" to enjoy. Best of luck to you!










31 .

[Doc Hoy]

Had a turn of remorse from the renters.

There was an open question which I neglected to answer since it appeared as though the deal had fallen through.

The pistol has the date 1914 on the top of the receiver.

The room was dark so I could not see the bore it real well. It looked okay and the vendor told me the bore is not perfect. He is the type of person who inspires trust and I am thinking the pistol is eminently shootable.

It appears to have been reblued.

The grips appear to be original and one of them has a scuff mark on it while the other side is good.

It has an all metal magazine.

I am going to communicate to the vendor that I want the pistol. He says he will ship to my C&R number.

[spacecoast]

$600 sounds like a pretty safe number for any working Luger. Post pics after you get it if possible - both sides, top, front of frame (showing full serial), underside of barrel, and any unit marks it may have, likely on the front of the grip frame.

[Doc Hoy]

But once it is in house I will post pichers

[Quentin2]

Good luck, Doc! Hope you like your new Luger.