Frame pins working loose on polymer framed guns?

[Recoil spring]

I have owned 4 Glocks, did trigger work on them, and bought a nice brass punch kit to knock out the pins on the frame for the modification. None of my Glocks ever had the pins work loose with repeat shootings, rock solid.

My Ruger LCP (early model .380 compact) when it sees any amount of shots over 10 rounds per visit at the range, the pins do work loose, read that this is common with them. As the gun is heavily pocket carry I am not worried on this. Been looking at the SCCY pistols, the early ones had pins that would work loose, heard the newer ones had less of an issue with this. Been some talk of the Ruger SR9 having issues too, but the one I owned was tight.

I wonder why Ruger pistols have pin issues? SCCY went with an over sized pin to correct. Any other brands of polymer pistols have pin walkout?

Thanks

[7east]

My G19 had a pin walk out during my last trip to the range. Only has around 3,000 rounds though it.

[krimmie]

I have a SR9c and a sr40, no pin issues at all.

[FrankenMauser]

I wonder why Ruger pistols have pin issues?
There are a lot more of them out there. The percentage affected is skewed by the larger number of reports.

Any other brands of polymer pistols have pin walkout?
Taurus.
Especially on the early Millenniums (pre-"Pro") that had polymer pins.
(All of which I am aware of were recalled, or are replaced with a current production equivalent, if sent in for repair or service.)

[O4L]

I've never seen or heard of this issue.

[Bill DeShivs]

Plastic stretches a lot more than steel.

[sigarms228]

Never a problem with my SIG SP2022, HKs, or Walther poly frame pistols.

[Cheapshooter]

Quit estimating a round count on my Elsie Pea at something just short of a grand. Never had a pin loosen up at all. Mine too is an early dash S/N LCP.

[g.willikers]

There's no telling when something will loosen, no matter what it's made of.
I once had the safety on my trusty 1911 just about fall out, right in the middle of a match stage.
It never did it before or since.
It pays to inspect this stuff before heading out the door.
Most of the time all that's required is a visual check.
Just a thought.

[Fishbed77]

Plastic stretches a lot more than steel.

Depends on the polymer and depends on the steel.

[Bill DeShivs]

Regardless of the polymer, plastic is softer than steel.

[JohnKSa]

Stretching is not exclusively about hardness.

Some plastics are very brittle and will break rather than deform/stretch. It's entirely conceivable that one could find a very elastic steel alloy with the proper temper/heat treat that would stretch more than a particularly brittle plastic. Even though the plastic would certainly be softer than the steel.

Besides, stretchiness is actually a good thing if the goal is to retain a pin via friction. The more stretchy the material that the pin goes through, the larger the diameter of pin that the material can tolerate. And a larger diameter pin through a given diameter hole is obviously going to move around less.

Also, it's worth noting that pins, even in polymer-framed guns are often retained by more than just a friction fit.

For example, both the metal pins in a Glock frame are retained by mechanical means using steel parts. The locking block pin is not only a tight fit though the frame, but the leg of a tensioned steel spring also bears against the pin. The pin has a machined step in it that tends to discourage the movement of the pin past the leg of the tensioned spring. Similarly the trigger pin is retained by a steel part which is tensioned against a groove in the pin by a spring.

Only the polymer pin which retains the trigger mechanism housing (and the interchangeable backstraps in the Gen 4 guns) is retained solely by friction. Although, I suppose one could argue that the shooter's hand also retains it when the gun is held in a shooting position.

In other words, the material properties of the frame may not have any effect at all on how well the pins through the frame are retained. Or it might have everything to do with it--the real difference in whether pins walk out or not is the design, not the materials used.

[g.willikers]

Polymer pins can be secured with a little judicious use of a soldering iron.
An old friend once made a living "welding" plastics.
He showed me all kinds of basic ways to deal with faults in plastic.
It's hard to find fault with a gun frame that can be successfully altered with a whittling knife and soldering iron.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Deleted

[FrankenMauser]

What does any of that have to do with this discussion, Carl?

....


Nothing is gone forever on the internet.

Lol, I don't know anything about the over all numbers or how the results are skewed. All I know is I owned 4 of them since they were made. Maybe there was a reason why I would change out the take down pin every time I changed out the recoil springs which was often. I have retired my 4th LCP. I shoot it just occasionally. I moved on to other Pocket pistols now, but still have about 5 sets of recoil springs, and take down pins in my drawer for the LCP. Aslo I was on the LCP forum for about 10 years and saw just about every thing about the gun.
JMO, I will not comment on how many walked out or completely broken. But you can take this advice or tell me to shove it, I do not care. Buy extra take down pins, they only cost around $2.00. Very cheap insurance. Better yet, get the stainless steel pin sold on some after market sight. Also keep a eye on the retainer spring that keeps the pin from walking. Trust me, you do not want to send the receiver down range. A standard joke among LCP shooters was "If you miss the shot, the receiver will take their head off".
By the way, if you ever get a chance, just check out some of the other better quality pocket guns. You may notice some big difference's in all the parts to include the take down Pins. Beefed up and stainless steel. Yea, it cost more, but only in the short term.
Also note. Invest in a stainless steel guide rod. Worth the investment. I went through a number of those as well, before I bought the stainless years ago. Even though I have about three of those, the same one looks like it did when I first put it in.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

I have no idea why you cannot figure out why I was talking about take down pins polymer pistols. What part of that did you not get. Yes, I had a number walk out or were actually broken in my LCP and I posted this. I also have the receiver go down range twice. I would always buy extra pins and change them out. Better yet, get a stainless pin. Please if you have a problem with this or I am not being clear then please just send me a email. Lol That is why I deleted the post. Looking forward to your email.

[Mike38]

Any other brands of polymer pistols have pin walkout?

The trigger pin works it's way to the right on my 20+ year old Ruger 22/45. I have no idea how many tens of thousands of rounds it has shot. Maybe it's met it's life expectancy? If fixable, I'd sure like to know how.

[JohnKSa]

The trigger pin in the 22/45 is a grooved pin that is retained by the leg of the magazine release spring which rides in the groove.

If it is walking out then check for one of the following situations:

The pin is installed backwards. The grooved end is supposed to be to the right side of the gun. If it is installed backwards then there is nothing for the spring to engage since the pin is only grooved on one end.

The pin is not the proper pin. There are several pins in the gun and at least one of them is the same diameter and length as the trigger pin but is grooved differently. If those two pins were swapped it might cause the problem you describe.

The leg of the magazine release spring which retains the pin is broken or is very weak.

The groove has worn so badly that it doesn't provide positive retention.

The latter two seem unlikely to me. There's not a lot of force on the pin so retaining it shouldn't stress the spring (which is a really solid spring) or the groove. I'm guessing it's one of the first two options.

[Cheapshooter]

I have no idea why you cannot figure out why I was talking about take down pins polymer pistols. What part of that did you not get. Yes, I had a number walk out or were actually broken in my LCP and I posted this. I also have the receiver go down range twice.

Maybe because of this

DETAILED DESCRIPTION The three main parts of the pistol are the receiver, barrel and slide. The receiver has suitable guides for the reciprocating slide, and a. hollow handle in which the magazine is inserted from below and automatically locked by the magazine catch.

So, was your hand still holding the "receiver" when they went down range?

[Bill DeShivs]

Cheapshooter- The LCP/P3AT guns have a receiver (frame) that is separate from the grip. It's held in the grip with pins.

[JJ45]

I have two Ruger 22/45s, one, a MKII Standard and a MKIII Target. The cross pin that I think runs through the sear assembly is always popping out slightly on both pistol while shooting...

This obviously shouldn't happen but the pins have never protruded far enough to completely disengage and I just push them back in.

I also have two Security Six .357s. One is a pre warning weapon (70s). The other is an early revolver, first year of the warning....you can wiggle the front sight, slightly, on both. The front sight is pinned in and is very secure despite the slight wiggle. They have had a lot of rounds shot through them with absolutely no problems, accuracy is excellent and there is no change in POI.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Bill, thank you for adding that. And on some of the LCP's you have two be careful as the Pin on the rear of the grip frame will also start to walk out. I have seen this many times and there have been numerous discussions. The Polymer frame on the LCP has always been one of the weakest links. The rear of the Polymer grip, seems to be a particular vulnerable location where a lot of the stress takes place in that gun. Many of the cracks take place there. I just noticed this again in my forth LCP, Not a big deal, as I just put some loctite on it and punch it back in. I do not know how these pins become loose. I suspect the polymer on that pistol just starts to wear or loosen up with the high recoil. I do not understand why Ruger has never addressed the issue. Kahr for instance use's Steel inserts in all the stress points of the Polymer grip.

[Mike38]

JohnKSa, thank you, I will check into that.

[Bill DeShivs]

Strange that you never see these problems on the Keltec P3AT.
The Ruger is supposed to be an "improved" copy.

[Slotback]

I've had pins walk loose on Glocks as well. The fix was to simply replace the pin. It happens I suppose. I classified it as "parts breaking".