May 31, 2017, 08:33 PM | #26 | |||
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Quote:
Here is the gist of the first: Quote:
The second type is distinguished from the first because there is no requirement that possession be "unlawful" for their to be a violation, only that it be done knowingly. As mentioned above, the courts have read intent into the statute, at least to a degree. I think it is likely this approach would apply to other types of contraband as well: Quote:
Excuse the somewhat lengthy post but, as we lawyers know, details matter. |
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June 1, 2017, 12:55 PM | #27 |
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Jim, thank you for your excellent and detailed response. It might perhaps go beyond the scope of this thread, but I think the information is still very important for reinforcing the fact that if one hopes to be able to claim innocent possession of contraband he will need to be able to show taking action to appropriately dispose of it without delay.
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June 1, 2017, 01:13 PM | #28 | |||
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With regard to firearms plating, there appears to be some disagreement even in the industry.
I queried two companies that do firearm plating and some gunsmithing. I'm not going to identify the companies because of the differences in their responses, but they are both well known for plating services and have 07 (manufacturer) FFLs. I asked: They responded: and: So apparently Company 1 will replace the serial number if necessary. I don't know if they have confirmed the propriety of this with ATF. And apparently Company 2 will not attempt the work if it would impair the readability of the serial number.
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper Last edited by Frank Ettin; June 1, 2017 at 06:30 PM. Reason: correct typo |
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June 2, 2017, 03:33 AM | #29 | |
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Not everything is charged under federal statutes. State statute(s) often use different wording to describe the same crime as federal statutes & it depends on which statute a person is charged under - - who picks up the tab for prosecution &&&(most often the most important point) who cashes in on the fines. In Ohio, the term used for a felon having possession of a firearm is - a person under a disability. A number of years ago, there was a cab driver (felon) that shot and killed someone that attacked him. He was found innocent of the shooting, but, guilty of "having a firearm under a disability" & got three years in prison for it. Under a disability invokes all sorts of images of a person in a wheelchair being denied the right to own a gun - - but - - the disability they mean is, the person has committed some previous offence that renders them "disabled" to have a gun (in any way, shape or form). The way this "defaced" jargon is applied would depend wholly on exactly where it happened & what the law was that the individual was charged under. |
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June 5, 2017, 05:34 PM | #30 |
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Very interesting. Take a Husqvarna for instance. Dunno about now but the 640's and some later models had the serial number on the barrel and nothing on the receiver. Rebarrel and OOPS! No number. Some of the earliest J.C. Higgins M50s had no serial number at all unless it was also on the barrel. How about all those millions of early .22LRs that have no number? Guess they're all contraband now.
On another note, I know a gentleman who bought a barreled action and blank at a gun show to be the basis for a custom rifle he'd saved for more years than I care to count. Finally he had enough and had a "name" gunsmith carve out the blank into a beautiful piece of work. Seems whoever polished out the barreled action kind of messed up a bit of the serial number. I've seen it and if you know what it's supposed to be you can make it out. The bottom metal also has the number an it matches the legible portion. Does this fellow have any options to save his rifle and I know him and he's not gonna willingly turn in his nearly $4,000 dream. The only option I see is strip it of everything except the bare receiver and turn that part in. He's not too fond of that idea. Paul B.
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June 5, 2017, 06:34 PM | #31 | ||
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However, federal law is what it is, and under 18 USC 922(k), emphasis added: So if the importer or manufacturer put a serial number on the gun, it is illegal to possess the gun if that number has been removed, obliterated, or altered -- whether the gun was made before 1968 or after 1968. If someone is enough in love with his rationalization as to why in his case it's okay for him to hold on to that gun with the butchered serial number that he's willing to try selling the rationalization to a federal judge, that'll be his problem -- not mine. And if a gunsmith bollixed up a serial number on a gun of mine that I really wanted to keep, I'd immediately be hiring a top drawer lawyer to (1) see what can be worked out with the ATF; and (2) make sure that the gunsmith clearly understood that he was going to be held accountable for any loss I suffered because he screwed up the serial number on my gun. There are all kinds of sad stories around, but the law doesn't provide a lot of wiggle room.
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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