Thoughts on this exact rifle for High Power?

Shoebox · October 6, 2005, 08:58 PM

I have a lead on this model Bushmaster in like new condition for very short money.

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa2s20.asp

Gun is an XM15 E2S 20" (A2).

As I mentioned in my last thread asking about carbines in HP, I have been bitten by the bug after attending a CMP class and want to get started, but do not want to spend a huge amount of coin on a high-zoot rifle as a beginner. But I also want to make sure I am getting something that will allow me to shoot well (if the shooter skill is up to it) and will be HP legal.

As always, thanks in advance for the input.

Steve

ltdave · October 6, 2005, 10:17 PM

the Rock River Arms NM A2 is listed for $1,000.00 even at ADCOfirearms

if your rifle can be purchased for under this amount by about $295 less than this (plus more if you need 'smithing help) to add the 'once youre serious' necessary upgrades of a float tube, NM sights and trigger then i say go for it...

i would think if its in 'like new condition' it should go for about $600. my local shop carries these for about $800 or so...

if its at that price or less, then i would have bought it before posting but i understand your questions...

sounds like it might be the way to go. shoot it for a while and if you think you want to get serious, add the extra parts. you can do a trigger and sights without much trouble at all if youve got opposable thumbs. a float tube requires a few special tools...

good luck with your choice...

david

Shoebox · October 6, 2005, 11:13 PM

Thanks David.

I am expecting to pay between $600 and $650 for it based on talking to the guy tonight.

I stopped in my local gun shop today and, like the places near you, the exact gun was going for $800.00 new.

I figure even at $650, with the couple extra mags, a scope mount (which I may end up selling on ebay), and an extra soft carry bag on top of the hard factory case, I am doing ok on it. Plus, because its a private, in-state sale I'll be saving another $30.00+ bucks on sales tax and avoiding an FFL transfer fee. So assuming this rifle is a decent place to start off as a novice HP shooter, it seems like a no-brainer.

Thanks for the input.

Steve

Tim R · November 10, 2005, 05:43 PM

I think it would be a great starting place. You will need to find some 20 round mags even though 30's will work. Might also need to do some sight work like Dave said. A White Oak Precision RRA 2 stage trigger is pretty sweet for the money. Mine has over 1200 rounds with no signs of any problems and has a crisp break. You will want to add the butt and front weights to help steady the rifle.

Good news is you will have a good lower when you decide you need a better upper. I would look at White Oak Prescision. I really like the pinned sights.

Lycanthrope · November 11, 2005, 12:06 AM

Very few people in Highpower use a Bushy. You can buy a RRA lower from Eagle firearms for about $200 and add in a GREAT upper from Compass Lake or White Oak Precision or White Oak Armament for about $700. Both put you under $1000 and are WAY above a Bushmaster. A White OAK Armament upper will have 1:7 twist barrel cut by Compass Lake and can be had with PINNED 1/4 or 1/2 MOA rear sights. You can choose front sight width and it's free floated.

Want to upgrade later? Just get a better barrel from White Oak Precision.

Buy ONCE.

Tim R · November 12, 2005, 07:14 AM

I agree with you Lycanthrope to a point. I have the WOP upper with a 6 1/2 twist Nor Pac, A RRA lower and a WOP tuned RRA 2 stage trigger. I also have a Bayo lug and flash hider as it was ordered just after the ban sunsetted. I shoot in the master class and working hard to get to HM. I've shot 14 matches this year (14 matches on the rifle) with several wins and in the money in most of the others. All I'm saying is Shoebox could get started with HP with the rifle he wants to buy. I'm not saying there isn't anything better but if it's what the guy can afford.....a Bushy lower is not the end of the world....it's a still a good lower. Shoot it wear out the barrel and go for the good stuff! Or shoot it until you can shoot better than the upper will allow then go for it. Why wear out the good stuff while you are learning? If it were up to me he would start with a .30 and shoot that until he didn't move around.

I also know the RRA DCM rifle will shoot very well as well and is also a great starting point.

Ken O · November 12, 2005, 10:28 PM

I started about the same way, a friend bought a BM when the ban went in just to have one, he put it in the closet and never fired it. He called me one day and asked if I wanted to buy it for $500, I couldnt resist, the sales slip was still in the box, he paid $975. I started shooting it in HP matches, but the trigger went south real quick, a problem I found out later that is prevelent with BM. I put in a RR trigger group massaged by John Holliger, then later I added a WOP upper.
So as others have said, shoot what you got and improve/aquire the gear you need when/if you can afford it.

Lycanthrope · November 13, 2005, 02:03 AM

I've just been down the competition route a couple times and have spent 2x as much because I outran my original equipment. If you're the serious type, save up.

T. O'Heir · November 13, 2005, 02:28 AM

"...will be HP legal..." Which rules are you looking at? CMP? Go here. http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/M16.htm
If in doubt e-mail here. [email protected]
"...allow me to shoot well..." Forget about that. Just go shoot and have fun. There is a learning curve. Timing mostly. Relax, match shooting doesn't affect your living. You will be nervous at your first match, but the thing to remember is that nobody will point and laugh. It just doesn't work that way. Most shooters will bend over backwards to help a new guy. You're not shooting against anybody but yourself. The real truth is that nobody cares how well you shoot. Other shooters only care about how well they shot.

gxi.llc · December 9, 2005, 11:03 PM

I like Tim's idea of the .30. You took a CMP class? You should see about getting a CMP M1. It isn't getting any easier to find a good one, you can get it for less than the AR, it's a lot of fun to shoot, and it's a piece of history. Just a thought.

Shoebox · December 9, 2005, 11:25 PM

I actually picked up the AR a while back, not long after my original post. Always wanted one, couldn't pass up the price of $625 for a gun in phenomenal shape. Shot it at my first two real matches, where it wouldn't have mattered what I was shooting. Nobody had more fun than me those days. And you're right, people bend over backwards to help the new guys. Couldn't believe how great people were.

Not long after my second match I was made an offer I couldn't refuse to pick up an M1A Super Match with the Hart stainless barrel. Way more gun than a guy with no experience has any reason owning, but no way could I pass up the deal. What a rifle! The trigger alone clued me into the value of something that seems small but makes a massive difference. Anyway, this will obviously be the gun I shoot from now on for competition, or at least until I get a WOA upper and a match trigger for the AR. Even then, there's just something about the M1A...always loved them, never thought I would be able to own one as nice as this. Total drag that I started so late in the year. Can't wait until spring.

Thanks again to all those that replied.

Steve

Lycanthrope · December 9, 2005, 11:35 PM

M1's are just fun to shoot whether you hit anything or not.

It's over, you're hooked.

30Cal · December 10, 2005, 11:16 AM

Congrat's on your purchases! There's a couple tricks to shooting the M14 that I can share that will take some of the steep out of the learning curve.

When you shoot offhand, choke your right hand all the way up so the web of your hand is up against the receiver heel. Lift your elbow up so that it's level with your shoulder (in the old days, they'll lift it up as high as possible). Now you can pull on the grip a little to stabilize the rifle without messing up your NPA. Helps a lot, especially if it's windy. Make sure you bring the rifle up (and usually canted in a bit) to your eye and not your eye to the rifle.

A decent sitting position can take ages to develop, but with a few pointers and 30 min of messing with it on the livingroom floor will save you months of bumbling on the firing line. Tips for shooting sitting with the M1a:
http://www.ambackforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18584

Shooting a well tuned M1A is a real pleasure! Enjoy! If you handload, try the Speer 125gr TNT for 200yds. Cheap, accurate and very low recoil.

Ty

CTC01 · December 14, 2005, 07:26 PM

THAT'S GREAT!!!!

Love to see another .30 cal on the firing line. I shoot a SA M1A "loaded" model myself. This past year was my first serious year. Finally got all the right equipment and boy did I have FUN!!

October 6, 2005, 08:58 PM	#1
Shoebox Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 36	Thoughts on this exact rifle for High Power? I have a lead on this model Bushmaster in like new condition for very short money. http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa2s20.asp Gun is an XM15 E2S 20" (A2). As I mentioned in my last thread asking about carbines in HP, I have been bitten by the bug after attending a CMP class and want to get started, but do not want to spend a huge amount of coin on a high-zoot rifle as a beginner. But I also want to make sure I am getting something that will allow me to shoot well (if the shooter skill is up to it) and will be HP legal. As always, thanks in advance for the input. Steve

November 10, 2005, 05:43 PM	#4
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	I think it would be a great starting place. You will need to find some 20 round mags even though 30's will work. Might also need to do some sight work like Dave said. A White Oak Precision RRA 2 stage trigger is pretty sweet for the money. Mine has over 1200 rounds with no signs of any problems and has a crisp break. You will want to add the butt and front weights to help steady the rifle. Good news is you will have a good lower when you decide you need a better upper. I would look at White Oak Prescision. I really like the pinned sights. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

November 12, 2005, 07:14 AM	#6
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	I agree with you Lycanthrope to a point. I have the WOP upper with a 6 1/2 twist Nor Pac, A RRA lower and a WOP tuned RRA 2 stage trigger. I also have a Bayo lug and flash hider as it was ordered just after the ban sunsetted. I shoot in the master class and working hard to get to HM. I've shot 14 matches this year (14 matches on the rifle) with several wins and in the money in most of the others. All I'm saying is Shoebox could get started with HP with the rifle he wants to buy. I'm not saying there isn't anything better but if it's what the guy can afford.....a Bushy lower is not the end of the world....it's a still a good lower. Shoot it wear out the barrel and go for the good stuff! Or shoot it until you can shoot better than the upper will allow then go for it. Why wear out the good stuff while you are learning? If it were up to me he would start with a .30 and shoot that until he didn't move around. I also know the RRA DCM rifle will shoot very well as well and is also a great starting point. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

October 6, 2005, 10:17 PM	#2
ltdave Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2005 Posts: 226	the Rock River Arms NM A2 is listed for $1,000.00 even at ADCOfirearms if your rifle can be purchased for under this amount by about $295 less than this (plus more if you need 'smithing help) to add the 'once youre serious' necessary upgrades of a float tube, NM sights and trigger then i say go for it... i would think if its in 'like new condition' it should go for about $600. my local shop carries these for about $800 or so... if its at that price or less, then i would have bought it before posting but i understand your questions... sounds like it might be the way to go. shoot it for a while and if you think you want to get serious, add the extra parts. you can do a trigger and sights without much trouble at all if youve got opposable thumbs. a float tube requires a few special tools... good luck with your choice... david

October 6, 2005, 11:13 PM	#3
Shoebox Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 36	Thanks David. I am expecting to pay between $600 and $650 for it based on talking to the guy tonight. I stopped in my local gun shop today and, like the places near you, the exact gun was going for $800.00 new. I figure even at $650, with the couple extra mags, a scope mount (which I may end up selling on ebay), and an extra soft carry bag on top of the hard factory case, I am doing ok on it. Plus, because its a private, in-state sale I'll be saving another $30.00+ bucks on sales tax and avoiding an FFL transfer fee. So assuming this rifle is a decent place to start off as a novice HP shooter, it seems like a no-brainer. Thanks for the input. Steve

November 11, 2005, 12:06 AM	#5
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	Very few people in Highpower use a Bushy. You can buy a RRA lower from Eagle firearms for about $200 and add in a GREAT upper from Compass Lake or White Oak Precision or White Oak Armament for about $700. Both put you under $1000 and are WAY above a Bushmaster. A White OAK Armament upper will have 1:7 twist barrel cut by Compass Lake and can be had with PINNED 1/4 or 1/2 MOA rear sights. You can choose front sight width and it's free floated. Want to upgrade later? Just get a better barrel from White Oak Precision. Buy ONCE.

November 12, 2005, 10:28 PM	#7
Ken O Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Half way between Grayling and Cadillac, Michigan Posts: 353	I started about the same way, a friend bought a BM when the ban went in just to have one, he put it in the closet and never fired it. He called me one day and asked if I wanted to buy it for $500, I couldnt resist, the sales slip was still in the box, he paid $975. I started shooting it in HP matches, but the trigger went south real quick, a problem I found out later that is prevelent with BM. I put in a RR trigger group massaged by John Holliger, then later I added a WOP upper. So as others have said, shoot what you got and improve/aquire the gear you need when/if you can afford it.

November 13, 2005, 02:03 AM	#8
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	I've just been down the competition route a couple times and have spent 2x as much because I outran my original equipment. If you're the serious type, save up.

November 13, 2005, 02:28 AM	#9
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...will be HP legal..." Which rules are you looking at? CMP? Go here. http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/M16.htm If in doubt e-mail here. [email protected] "...allow me to shoot well..." Forget about that. Just go shoot and have fun. There is a learning curve. Timing mostly. Relax, match shooting doesn't affect your living. You will be nervous at your first match, but the thing to remember is that nobody will point and laugh. It just doesn't work that way. Most shooters will bend over backwards to help a new guy. You're not shooting against anybody but yourself. The real truth is that nobody cares how well you shoot. Other shooters only care about how well they shot.

December 9, 2005, 11:03 PM	#10
gxi.llc Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2004 Posts: 132	I like Tim's idea of the .30. You took a CMP class? You should see about getting a CMP M1. It isn't getting any easier to find a good one, you can get it for less than the AR, it's a lot of fun to shoot, and it's a piece of history. Just a thought.

December 9, 2005, 11:25 PM	#11
Shoebox Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 36	I actually picked up the AR a while back, not long after my original post. Always wanted one, couldn't pass up the price of $625 for a gun in phenomenal shape. Shot it at my first two real matches, where it wouldn't have mattered what I was shooting. Nobody had more fun than me those days. And you're right, people bend over backwards to help the new guys. Couldn't believe how great people were. Not long after my second match I was made an offer I couldn't refuse to pick up an M1A Super Match with the Hart stainless barrel. Way more gun than a guy with no experience has any reason owning, but no way could I pass up the deal. What a rifle! The trigger alone clued me into the value of something that seems small but makes a massive difference. Anyway, this will obviously be the gun I shoot from now on for competition, or at least until I get a WOA upper and a match trigger for the AR. Even then, there's just something about the M1A...always loved them, never thought I would be able to own one as nice as this. Total drag that I started so late in the year. Can't wait until spring. Thanks again to all those that replied. Steve

December 9, 2005, 11:35 PM	#12
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	M1's are just fun to shoot whether you hit anything or not. It's over, you're hooked.

December 10, 2005, 11:16 AM	#13
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	Congrat's on your purchases! There's a couple tricks to shooting the M14 that I can share that will take some of the steep out of the learning curve. When you shoot offhand, choke your right hand all the way up so the web of your hand is up against the receiver heel. Lift your elbow up so that it's level with your shoulder (in the old days, they'll lift it up as high as possible). Now you can pull on the grip a little to stabilize the rifle without messing up your NPA. Helps a lot, especially if it's windy. Make sure you bring the rifle up (and usually canted in a bit) to your eye and not your eye to the rifle. A decent sitting position can take ages to develop, but with a few pointers and 30 min of messing with it on the livingroom floor will save you months of bumbling on the firing line. Tips for shooting sitting with the M1a: http://www.ambackforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18584 Shooting a well tuned M1A is a real pleasure! Enjoy! If you handload, try the Speer 125gr TNT for 200yds. Cheap, accurate and very low recoil. Ty

December 14, 2005, 07:26 PM	#14
CTC01 Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: IN Posts: 36	THAT'S GREAT!!!! Love to see another .30 cal on the firing line. I shoot a SA M1A "loaded" model myself. This past year was my first serious year. Finally got all the right equipment and boy did I have FUN!!