Regarding the NFA itself...(I think)

[nrgetik]

I'm sure similar threads have been posted in the past, but uh I'm new so I'll do it again

What is the logic behind the extremely restrictive laws against automatic weapons, silencers, and the like? I mean, it just seems to me that the only people being disarmed here are law-abiding citizens...I don't mean to start an argument, but it makes me sad that I can't practically AND legally own a fully automatic weapon. Or a silencer. Or modify my own weapon, seeing as I own the damn thing :\

Additionally, are there any loopholes that I should know about that WOULD enable me to own such things, legally and practically? I live in Florida.

Any info appreciated on this subject, as I am not terribly intimate with firearms laws, I only know the basics.

Edit: I hope this is in the appropriate forum.

[kirkcdl]

Well,you could buy a transferable existing F/A,or you could design and build your own.No law against that,but you cannot sell it,ever.Also,no serial number is required...As far as suppressors go,you can buy a newly manufactured one,but the $200 tax applies.Same with AOW(only $5 tax) and SBR/SBS weapons($200),can't make your own with those...

[nrgetik]

transferable? what is meant by that?

abbreviations i don't know:

AOW
SBR/SBS

thanks for the info

[Chaingunner]

As I understand it, transferable weapons don't require you to have an FFL, but you still gotta pay the $200 tax (and these toys are expensive...I saw a transferable HK MP5 with three mags for sale in Shotgun News; it was around fifteen grand!)

AOW = Any other weapon (think flamethrowers)
SBS = Short Barelled Shotgun (y'know, Ash's boomstick in Army of Darkness)
SBR = Short Barelled Rifle (Colt Commando, probably)

[gunslinger555]

aow is pistol grip short barreled shotgun you cant put a stock on it and things like open bolt semi's and penguns,sbs you can have a pistol grip or stock,flamethrowers are not regulated by federal law the logic behind the gun laws is to slowly take away our gun rights becouse some ppl. belive that since you own a gun you are going to kill someone these ppl. once they gain power are what we like to call tyrants

[fal308]

Unless you have a demonstration letter from a government agency or military, you can no longer build a full auto. The 1986 law forbid the manufacture of new fully automatic firearms for civilian use.
As for AOWs and SBR/SBSs, they can still be made (these are not necessarily FA). The applicable taxes and paperwork MUST be finished before attempting to build these though.

[nrgetik]

man, this stinks.

so if i wanted to own a russian-made ak47 (how rare are these?), i would have to find one built before the act was passed which would probably be very expensive (?), and then still have to pay uber taxes on it? anything else?

and for a suppressor, i can buy it normally but i still have to pay the $200 tax?

and there's no way for me to legally own something like ash's boomstick? (love those flicks)

[GeorgeF]

An actual Russian Made AK47 that was initially created in full auto? Dream on.

IF you see one for sale, expect to pay over $20,000 probably closer to $25000 or more. And they go FAST atthat price.

Now, a AK47 that was imported as a semiauto and legally converted to full auto? Probably only $15000 or so. What a deal!

Most places arent going to be charging you sales tax for these things, so only 'uber tax' is the $200. If that was the only thing stopping me from getting some more NFA weapons, I would be one happy fella.

Silencer? Sure you can buy one. The guy selling it to you should know whats entailed and will make sure that the extra paperwork and $200 tax is paid. He's not going to transfer it to you until the ATF says its ok.

Ash's shotgun? Piece of cake. Just find someone willing to sell one or buy a similar full size shotgun and have a professional (there's plenty out there) who will do the work. AGAIN, the person selling it to you isnt going to give it to you until the ATF sends them paperwork saying "nrgetik can own this weapon/device." Not just anyone can chop up a shotgun, they have to be legitimate.

Lots of relatively inexpensive full-autos out there. Sadly, just not the coolest ones. But you can get a Mac, a Reising, a M2 or a Sten for around $5000 or less. Its all up to you whether its worth it or not. The OTHER trick is finding a place to shoot full auto. Sadly most ranges dont allow them - in fact the public state ranges here in PA only allow 3 rounds in your firearm at a time. What rubbish.

Good luck.

[nrgetik]

A Sten would be pretty cool...

So basically what you're saying, is the only things that are going to be remotely worth it are old submachine guns, and that fully automatic rifles are going to be more (way more)? What about a Thompson or something like that?

So, is the ATF going to be keeping tabs on me forever if I do any of this?

[Hkmp5sd]

What is the logic behind the extremely restrictive laws against automatic weapons, silencers, and the like?

The reason is that back in the 30s, the government wanted to ban machineguns, SBRs, SBSs and other weapons they didn't like. At that time, the government actually believed the 2nd Amendment meant that people could own military firearms. With some fancy footstepping, they decided they could use the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution to regulate these guns. They decided to place a $200 tax on these weapons, putting them beyond the ability of most Americans to be able to afford.

is the only things that are going to be remotely worth it are old submachine guns, and that fully automatic rifles are going to be more (way more)?

Nope. As a result of the '86 ban on new machineguns, there is a fixed number of machineguns that can be owned by civilians. The price of ALL transferrable machineguns is going to continue going up as demand increases and due to losses (such as destroyed, stolen, broken, etc), the number of transferrable machineguns will gradually decrease. I paid $2,000 for a Colt M16A1 about ten years ago and they currently are tipping the scale at $15,000. In another 10 years, they may be pushing $25,000-$30,000.

So, is the ATF going to be keeping tabs on me forever if I do any of this?

As long as you own NFA weapons, you must keep ATF informed of where those weapons are located. With the exception of suppressors and AOWs, you must get ATF permission before taking them out of your state of residence.

Or modify my own weapon, seeing as I own the damn thing :\

With the exception of machineguns, you CAN modify your own weapons. You merely do the paperwork and pay the $200 tax beforehand.

[nrgetik]

Christ, so if I wanted a Sten, I'd have to keep the ATF informed about where it was in certain intervals?

What if I went to another country, procured an automatic weapon of some kind, took it COMPLETELY apart, and shipped every individual piece back to the United States? What would happen then?

[Hkmp5sd]

What would happen then?

You would be arrested for smuggling a machinegun into the US and possession of an unregistered machinegun.

BTW, the receiver of a firearm is considered a firearm all by itself. It doesn't have to be assembled into a complete firearm.

I'd have to keep the ATF informed about where it was in certain intervals?

Only when you changed residences or you wanted to take it outside the state.

[gunslinger555]

club fed man club fed that is of course if you get caught if you have the money get a legal one keep it legal if you are going to get one illeagaly against my advice
1.never shoot it
2.never let anyone know about it
3.dont keep it on your property
4.dont keep your finger prints on it
5.never have posesion of it
if you follow that you might not get caught if you dont get caught importing it. does it seem worth it? if you cant aford it and you realy want full auto get a 10/22 and get a bmf activator orthe have kit to whare you need 2 10/22's and vuala you have a legal full auto thats not required to be registered .22 only tho but 22's are fun

if you start up a walk on capital hill i will go

[Gun Rabbi]

Unless you have a demonstration letter from a government agency or military, you can no longer build a full auto. The 1986 law forbid the manufacture of new fully automatic firearms for civilian use.

That is not true, As an S.O.T. you may not buy a post may 1986 machine gun without a demo letter. As a Class II SOT you may indeed make them without a demo leter. You have 24 hours to register it with ATF. To sell them you can only sell them to another SOT with a Demo letter (Or an appropriate agency)

[nrgetik]

criminey

[gunslinger555]

you still feel free?

[nrgetik]

Well, I never really did

But, less now :P

I can understand why the government needs to regulate things, I truly can. Some people are effin crazy, but there -has- to be a way to make it easier for the people that are responsible enough to be able to own such weapons. Like, force people to take a course and then some a series of aptitude tests? Perhaps a general one (to make sure you have some basic common sense), and then one regarding firearms specifically? Then perhaps a quick psyche evaluation and bam you get to buy what you want. It'd still be a bit of a hassle, but I think better than it is now.

[pickpocket]

You want a full-auto, join the military and become a machine gunner.

[nrgetik]

well, if i were in the military the weaponry still wouldn't be MINE, i'd just be using it for a bit, and that's no good

what if i purchased a fully automatic firearm in/from another country that was produced before the ban went into effect in the U.S. and had it shipped to a class 3 dealer in the U.S. or something?

[shaggy]

what if i purchased a fully automatic firearm in/from another country that was produced before the ban went into effect in the U.S. and had it shipped to a class 3 dealer in the U.S. or something?

Not possible. The gun had to have been registered with BATFE as a machinegun prior to the 5-19-86 cutoff and it couldn't be removed from the country and then re-imported (post-1968) without it being re-classified as a post sample.

[nrgetik]

i see. wow.

[pickpocket]

Like I said.....

Quit trying to skirt the law!

[gunslinger555]

if you realy want a legal full auto for fun but dont want to go through the process get a ruger 10/22 and a bmf activator or something like it its the closest you are going to get to full auto without registration (legally )

edit: or an ak and bump fire it

[nrgetik]

Like I said.....

Quit trying to skirt the law!

and if the law is unfair, overly restrictive, and pretty much a bunch of bull[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]?

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."
-Abraham Lincoln

i'm not intending to start an argument, but this is how i feel about the matter.

[san_chang4837]

I don't know much about guns, but if I could get an auto, I would get the Walther G22 and make it an auto, enlarge the mag, and let the mice in my house really have it!