The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 13, 2017, 12:54 AM   #1
copperhead1953
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2017
Posts: 2
extractor no ejecting

Rack the slide back did not see a shell in barrell. mag was removed ,let loose of slide pulled trigger bang.is this common
copperhead1953 is offline  
Old November 13, 2017, 01:31 AM   #2
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,910
It happens. Some owner's manuals indicate that during the unloading process the chamber should be physically checked with a finger, not just visually inspected.

Some guns are actually made without extractors and therefore won't/can't extract a shell from the chamber when the slide is racked. Any pistols with tip-up barrels are made that way.

Anyway, a lot of unintentional shots are fired during unloading. It's better to be too careful than not careful enough.

Remove the magazine.
Open the action.
Visually inspect the chamber.
Physically inspect the chamber.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old November 13, 2017, 07:57 AM   #3
Ibmikey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2013
Location: Now relocated to Texas
Posts: 2,943
As John indicated a visual check of the chamber when unloading is important, also keep your mind on what you are doing when loading or unloading. You originally loaded the pistol? You should have questioned the lack of a cartridge being removed when the slide is retracted, I usually cycle the slide several times before checking the chamber. I know how many rounds to account for as I load a full magazine and then charge the pistol, I do not top off the mag so the number of cartridges that mag holds is what I should have after clearing.
One should be especially careful with .22 magazine fed rifles as a cartridge can somehow mysteriously hide in there only to surface when you least expect it. I found one in my Marlin lever action the other day much to my surprise, after I gave the lever one last cycle before cleaning. Scary.
Ibmikey is offline  
Old November 13, 2017, 09:10 AM   #4
1911_Hardball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2009
Location: SD
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by copperhead1953 View Post
Rack the slide back did not see a shell in barrell. mag was removed ,let loose of slide pulled trigger bang.is this common
It's called a negligent discharge and,unfortunately, it's all too common.
__________________
Shot placement is King, penetration is Queen. Everything else is faeries dancing on the heads of pins.
1911_Hardball is offline  
Old November 13, 2017, 09:52 AM   #5
Hal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 8,563
I've noticed the tread for the last few years has been to jack the slide several times in quick succession.....a practice I agree with 100%.
If once is good - a few times is better.
Hal is offline  
Old November 13, 2017, 10:05 AM   #6
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,153
extractor no ejecting

I’ll be honest and say I’m not a huge fan of racking a bunch of times unless I’m clearing a malfunction in training or a fight. If the extractor doesn’t work the first time I want to know and assess. If it does work then the additional racks are superfluous. Release magazine, lock the slide to the rear, then check the chamber and the breechface in case the extractor still has a case locked in it. You can’t just assume it worked.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by TunnelRat; November 13, 2017 at 06:02 PM.
TunnelRat is offline  
Old November 13, 2017, 04:15 PM   #7
TailGator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,786
I don't rack the slide multiple times either. Drop the mag, rack the slide and lock it open, and check the chamber. A visual check requires good light. A tactile check is a good double check. You can't just go through the motions - you have to do it and think about what you are seeing and feeling.

OP, I mean no offense, but "did not see a shell" is not the same as looking carefully at the chamber. Are you saying that you looked and didn't see a round, or that you racked the slide and didn't notice a round but didn't really look for one?
TailGator is offline  
Old November 13, 2017, 04:49 PM   #8
DaleA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2002
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 5,283
Quote:
You can't just go through the motions - you have to do it and think about what you are seeing and feeling.
Bears repeating. I emphasized the part that I think folk forget.
DaleA is offline  
Old November 13, 2017, 04:57 PM   #9
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by TailGator View Post
A visual check requires good light. A tactile check is a good double check.

Excellent point.

I also agree about paying attention as opposed to going through the motions. I’ve been in classes where instructors will hold knives and other objects in their hands when people are scanning and assessing. The first few times most people won’t see them. It’s not just a process for the sake of it, there’s a purpose and the same is true of checking the status of a firearm.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TunnelRat is offline  
Old November 13, 2017, 05:14 PM   #10
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 7,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by copperhead1953
Rack the slide back did not see a shell in barrell. mag was removed...
I'm not sure if this is written in the exact chronological order that the actions were performed, but if so, IMHO it also bears repeating that dropping the mag should always be the FIRST step of a chamber check.

NEVER lock back the slide and then drop the mag, because you're just asking to inadvertently chamber a round if you forget step 2. [Edit to add] Dropping the mag also admits more light into the action, making it easier to visually double-check that the chamber is clear.

I will also hop on the bandwagon regarding repeated slide racking, or what I disdainfully call the "chucka-chucka-chucka" technique. It makes a lot of noise and looks impressive, but if the extractor is broken or the case rim is sheared off, all it does is lull the shooter into a false sense of security.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old November 14, 2017, 06:36 AM   #11
Hal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 8,563
Quote:
If it does work then the additional racks are superfluous.
I've seen too many "SD's" (stupid discharges) where the slide was racked with a magazine in, then the magazine dropped & the trigger pulled.
Its an all too common mistake & there's a bunch of YouTube videos showing where racking multiple times just might catch that type of "ND".(or "SD")

Quote:
You can't just go through the motions - you have to do it and think about what you are seeing and feeling.
While I agree 100% - - human nature generally wins out & people just go through the motions.

Just like a car...

When was the last time the average person did a "walk around" of the car/truck before getting in and pulling out of the garage/driveway?
Hal is offline  
Old November 14, 2017, 08:31 AM   #12
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,153
The solution to the example you just gave is to drop the magazine first. There’s a reason you do a visual and tactile inspection of the chamber, breechface, and magazine well. It slows you down and makes sure those areas are checked properly and in my opinion to a better level than just multiple racks. Does it require practice? Sure, so does racking the slide multiple times. As far as people being fallible they are and likely always will be. That doesn’t mean we don’t strive to be better or otherwise we wouldn’t have the standard safety rules because we’d say people just won’t follow them anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TunnelRat is offline  
Old November 14, 2017, 10:46 AM   #13
Hal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 8,563
I know the drill....

I just don't see any harm in jacking the slide more than once.

If you don't want to, then God speed and do it how ever makes you feel the best.
Hal is offline  
Old November 14, 2017, 05:08 PM   #14
copperhead1953
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2017
Posts: 2
O k the mag was removed first. I racked it back like I was going to lock the slide and could just see enough to see Barrell was empty I let the slide go back. Since then I've Check the gun and found that if you rack it slow the shell will stay against the breechface and rechamber.Yes I made many mistakes that time I've learned a lesson for sure .
Thanks for all the comments
copperhead1953 is offline  
Old November 14, 2017, 05:24 PM   #15
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 7,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by copperhead1953
Since then I've Check the gun and found that if you rack it slow the shell will stay against the breechface and rechamber.
It sounds to me like the ejector—not the extractor—is damaged or missing.

The ejector is a tab mounted to the frame on most pistols. As the slide comes back, the case head is supposed to strike the tab, causing the fired case to disengage from the extractor and fly out.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

Last edited by carguychris; November 14, 2017 at 05:30 PM. Reason: changed diagnosis, misread post 8-0
carguychris is offline  
Old November 14, 2017, 06:31 PM   #16
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,153
The way he describes it sounds like he only racked it back partially
Quote:
could just see enough to see Barrell was empty
In that case he might not have gone far enough back for the case to hit the ejector.
__________________
Know the status of your weapon
Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges
Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture
Maintain situational awareness
TunnelRat is offline  
Old November 14, 2017, 07:22 PM   #17
GarandTd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2016
Location: Rural PA
Posts: 1,639
I'm not understanding how a round was overlooked. If the shell stays against the breechface, it occupies the ejection port, in plain sight, regardless of whether you partially racked the slide or brought it back far enough to lock it open. I'm not picking on you, copperhead, just trying to understand what happened. I don't know what pistol, or caliber, or if that even matters. I used my own fullsize 9mm for a visual reference. The other possibility is that the round did not extract, stayed in the chamber, and you saw an empty ejection port, not an empty chamber.
__________________
22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp

Last edited by GarandTd; November 18, 2017 at 10:30 AM.
GarandTd is offline  
Old November 14, 2017, 07:27 PM   #18
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 3,863
I wouldn't think it is common . Sounds to me it was the extractor. You thought you looked in the barrel , I feel the bullet remained in the barrel , saw the empty magazine well, if the ejector was bad the bullet would be blocking the mag. well . Something I would think you couldn't miss when making your weapon safe with a dropped magazine. Glad know one was injured.

Always wonder how those bullet holes happened on the side walls of the indoor range. I pulled the trigger an it went bang . Hopefully it will never happen again , Scary.
cw308 is offline  
Old November 14, 2017, 10:39 PM   #19
James K
Member In Memoriam
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
It may sound dumb, but make sure you have the right ammo. For example, a .380 ACP round can be fed from the magazine of a pistol chambered for 9 x 19 (9mm Luger) then move too far into the chamber to be easily seen, yet the inertia firing pin of many 1911 type pistols will reach and fire the chambered round.

Jim
James K is offline  
Old November 15, 2017, 02:16 PM   #20
arquebus357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2016
Location: Atlanta, Georgia area
Posts: 455
You also need to take extra care when there are people around you might think it's hilarious to sneak a round into your firearm. You think I'm kidding ? I'm not.
arquebus357 is offline  
Old November 18, 2017, 02:32 AM   #21
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,617
Quote:
I just don't see any harm in jacking the slide more than once.
well, I don't think it will hurt anything, it is remotely possible that if the extractor is slipping off the rim of a chambered round, repeated racking MIGHT let it grab and hang on one time, and extract the round.

On the other hand, if the extractor is broken, racking the slide multiple times will do nothing to pull the loaded round out of the chamber, SO, if you don't LOOK CAREFULLY, and/or feel with your finger, just racking the slide a half dozen times or so will NOT guarantee the chamber is empty.

Question: when you had your "bang" was the fired shell casing ejected??
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old November 18, 2017, 12:59 PM   #22
Hal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 8,563
Quote:
Question: when you had your "bang" was the fired shell casing ejected??
Me?

I had a "bang" ND with a .25 Raven.
Spent shell was ejected.

Racked the slide, dropped the mag - I assume that's what happened.
But - being a Raven, who knows?

I pointed the gun down and pulled the trigger & "bang".
It spit the casing on the bed & my first thought was, oh @#$@, I put a hole in the waterbed in the bedroom down below.

I must have hit a joist though because there was no hole in the downstairs ceiling.
Hal is offline  
Old November 18, 2017, 01:30 PM   #23
arquebus357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2016
Location: Atlanta, Georgia area
Posts: 455
You should be proud that your self training told you to point a firearm in a relatively safe direction before pulling the trigger. ALWAYS
arquebus357 is offline  
Old November 18, 2017, 02:36 PM   #24
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Back in a Non-Free State
Posts: 3,133
. . . and 32ACP's can fire out of a 380 at least between a Kel Tec P32 and P3AT. These days when working on semi-autos, I not only clear chamber w/o mag but also shake the gun with the slide locked back, tilt the gun up, and look into the chamber. If it still goes bang after that, I guess it was my time.
__________________
Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old November 18, 2017, 02:44 PM   #25
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 4,062
Quote:
NEVER lock back the slide and then drop the mag, because you're just asking to inadvertently chamber a round if you forget step 2.
Huh, I don't get this. If the magazine is out, how can you chamber another round. I lock back the slide and drop the mag all the time and then checked to see if the chamber is loaded both visually and physically. that's how I was taught many years ago.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08740 seconds with 8 queries