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View Poll Results: What is the best strategy to deal with an unarmed mob like the milwaukee state fair? | |||
Do you run and hide/escape and hope that you can find a place where you can be secure? | 17 | 15.89% | |
Do you go to the assistance of a victim and attempt to stop the attack? | 13 | 12.15% | |
Do you draw your weapon without pointing it at anyone? | 4 | 3.74% | |
Do you calmly make your way out of the park and hope you aren't attacked? | 26 | 24.30% | |
If attacked do you defend yourself and your family (with lethal force if necessary)? | 93 | 86.92% | |
Do you take the beating and hope they don't kick you in the head too much and take your gun? | 0 | 0% | |
Would your decision be affected if your race was the same as the mob or the victims? | 4 | 3.74% | |
I don't think it happened, this thread is racist, and should be locked. | 1 | 0.93% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll |
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August 10, 2011, 07:00 PM | #76 |
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I can't wait for an armed citizen to shoot or split the belly of one of these idiots.
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August 10, 2011, 08:25 PM | #77 | |
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Imagine if your best friend's kid got caught up in that mob. Maybe he didn't know what his friends had planned. Maybe he wasn't even with them, but was just dressed in a similar manner. Then someone shot him. Heck, even if he was part of the whole thing, think how that would feel. Now, he's crippled, or dead, and his parents wondering why breaking some stuff and punching someone merits that sort of fate. Would you still make a statement like that?
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August 10, 2011, 09:12 PM | #78 |
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I'm really surprised to see 20% of the respondents who would refuse to defend themselves if attacked.
On a side note, similar mob attacks and riots are occurring in other cities in several other cities , especially Philidelphia and Chicago. There is a great deal of discussion on the different firearms forums about "situational awareness". A key to being able to avoid a confrontation that might lead to injury is to be aware of a threat before it develops the critical mass of a mob mentality. IMO part of that awareness is watching as crowds develop. Anytime I'm in public and I see a group of individuals with unique identifiable characteristics congregating I classify them by whether or not I perceive them as likely to be a threat, neutral, or protector. I base that perception on the groups activities and identifiable characteristics. If I see a crowd of girl scouts selling cookies (nuetral) I'll react differently than a group of teenage males conducting open air drug sales (threat). If I see a group of RUBs (Rich Urban Bikers) I would perceive them to be neutral if I'm on foot but potential protectors if I am on my bike. The same situation with 1%ers makes them neutral if I'm on foot and a potential threat if I'm on my bike (I ride a 600cc yamaha and some of those guys tend to look down on us rice burners). The point behind all this is that situational awareness requires you being aware of whether or not your appearance is going to make you a target by whichever group of na'er do wells is in the process of gathering for a mob/riot. Are you wearing a lakers jersey on the night they beat the Bulls in a big game? That could be a big problem if you are in chicago. Are you wearing a color associated with a particular gang in an area with gang activity. that is something you should be aware of if you see a group of young men wearing the same color. Are you a sikh who wears traditional garb on the night of a major terrorist attack? If you aren't aware of the heightened threat to your safety due to general ignorance you are at much greater risk than your brother who chose to leave his turban at home that day or avoid an area where there has been a rash of hate crimes by individuals that share certain identifiable charachteristics. Profiling potential adversaries is part of situational awareness |
August 10, 2011, 11:08 PM | #79 | |||
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A profile may tell you someone is potentially a threat or that they may be more likely to be a threat, but you can't decide someone IS a threat simply because of what they look like or what they're wearing or driving.
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August 10, 2011, 11:44 PM | #80 | ||
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My surprise was that only 81% said they'd defend themselves. The poll was written so that multible answers could be selected.
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I just wanted to make the point with this thread that the BEST way to deal with a violent mob/riot is not to be there, and the best way not to be there is to identify factors that make such a thing more likely so you can avoid the area. I don't feel comfortable with crowds in general, I'm a country boy and big cities and tall buildings make me nervous. A city boy might feel nervous in the woods and be worried about wild animals, I worry about two legged animals in the city because mobs and riots are historically much more likely to occur in urban areas. By the same token, bear and cougar attacks are much more likely to occur in the wilderness, and some types of bears are much more likely to attack humans than others. I just think that the key to personal safety is knowing what the potential threat is that you are likely to face and exhibiting behavior that takes your surroundings and the threats in your environment into account. |
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August 11, 2011, 12:46 AM | #81 |
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The poll is a little messed up.
If I could - my first option would be to exit - sneaky or non-sneaky - whatever, I'd try to vacate. That doesn't mean I wouldn't defend myself and my family if attacked. |
August 11, 2011, 01:05 AM | #82 | |
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August 11, 2011, 03:12 AM | #83 |
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sort of related interesting article
there was a longer version but I couldn't find it after-the-fact:
http://www.cbs58.com/news/local-news...ml?skipthumb=Y
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August 11, 2011, 11:31 AM | #84 | ||
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here is the timeline of events based on the 911 call log as published in this article:http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2...te_charges.php
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I have a couple points here. The first is that there is almost always a delay between a request for police assistance and the arrival of that assistance, even under the best of circumstances. In a crowded, constricted area, that delay is even greater because instead of a vehicle responding at 80 MPH they have to slow to a crawl because rioters and victims are blocking the roads and intersections. The second is that if you look at the report, you can see that people were pulled out of there cars through doors and windows. At a minimum, those folks should have had their doors locked and windows rolled up. The third, as you can see from the quotes from http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2...te_charges.php below, is that the "security" at the fair was pretty weak, and that part of your situational awareness should take into account the composition of the security guard force. Not all guards are equally competent and they may not always be completely impartial or unsympathetic to the rioters. Before going to a security guard for protection, one should consider how likely that guard is to actually try to protect you. Again, you can't always count on police to protect you. A court case years ago established that protecting the public isn't even considered their primary purpose, Their job is to arrest violators of the law, not prevent violations. Quote:
Last edited by JohnKSa; August 11, 2011 at 11:24 PM. Reason: . |
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August 11, 2011, 12:05 PM | #85 | |
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Other cases include South v. Maryland, Bowers v. Devito, and Hartzler v. City of San Jose.
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August 11, 2011, 02:59 PM | #86 |
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Okay, let's look at this....
I probably wouldn't *run* -- running from a mob that isn't looking for you specifically or at you specifically is just asking for their attention. Mobs are like dogs: if it runs, they chase it. But I would try to escape or hide.
This point contains two separate questions. In answer to the first, I would go to the assistance of a victim if I could do so without putting my life or the lives of others at significantly heightened risk. I think that chances of being able to do this are reasonably decent. So it's not unlikely that, in practice, I would try. In answer to the second, I would not try to stop the attack unless I thought I could do so without putting my life or the lives of others at significantly heightened risk. I think that chances of my being able to do *this* are down in the noise. So I doubt that, in practice, I would try.
No. If I draw my weapon, it's because I intend to use it. In a mob, that would be an absolute last resort. It's too likely to provoke more violence.
Yes. Of all the things that you suggested, this is what I would do first. The few times I've been in or around a mob or fighting, it has also worked. If you don't engage, the fighters usually have better things to do than to bother you. (And I was in the former Yugoslavia in spring of 1991 right after the war broke out. *That* was interesting....)
Yes. The only time I could see letting a mob attack without defending myself is if, in my judgment, I can't do so without risking innocent other lives.
This is prejudicially stated. However, it contains a valid point. Because I carry the means of defending myself with lethal force, I have a responsibility to other innocent people NOT to let it be taken from me by somebody who will then use it to kill others. There are two corollaries to this point as well. First, although I carry openly from time to time, I don't do so when I expect to be in a crowd. Second, if I am going to participate in a protest or demonstration of any kind, I leave the gun at home. I'll carry pepper spray or some non-lethal (or usually non-lethal) form of self defense instead.
Not unless you mean the human race. Any human being is of the same race as me. (We'll leave speculation about sentient non-humans out of this.)
In Wisconsin? It happened, unfortunately. But that other individual people (of any race) are racist does not mean that I am, or should be. I thought about skipping this list, but IMHO considering what to do in specific circumstances is an important part of training for self defense. I've also been in a mob a few times, unlike most people I know. If you ever are, you won't have much time to think, and you'll be WAAYY ahead of the game if you've already thought about what to do. You're also far more likely to get out unscathed, or at least alive, if you don't let any testosterone-generated nonsense such as "they can't do that to me" affect your thinking or choices. Mobs unfortunately CAN do nasty things -- things that the vast majority of individuals in the mob would never do on their own. The best way not to be the target is to act in such a way that the mob won't notice you, and then GET OUT OF THERE. |
August 11, 2011, 03:58 PM | #87 |
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Last night of the Iowa state fair was similiar, this year they plan on stronger police presense and NO CARRY WEAPONS ALLOWED. altho they did say no metal detectors. Craigslist has a raves and rants section, some folks posting there about the last nite is Janet Jackson and a riot is planned. So we will go another night
There are multiple exits, see one is going bad go another way is all I can offer. I just dont get it, a group of guys says hey lets go to the fair and beat up on folks for fun. I just dont understand that mindset. So you go to the fair and be legal leave the guns and knives at home....then what? |
August 11, 2011, 11:26 PM | #88 | ||
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August 12, 2011, 01:17 AM | #89 |
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I tried to delete this thread, but that was disabled for some reason. I thought alot of really good points have been made and alot of good information has been put out, but this thread has gotten too controversial.
since I can't shut it down I'll just stop posting on it. |
August 12, 2011, 01:21 AM | #90 | |
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I think thats a little ridiculous
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August 12, 2011, 01:32 AM | #91 | |
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August 12, 2011, 02:08 AM | #92 |
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and the other times when there is an argument and people ask for closing it gets ignored?
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August 12, 2011, 02:15 AM | #93 |
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thanx for PM, Chack. That made sense after reading it.
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