November 10, 2017, 06:22 PM | #1 |
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Any practical use?
Just curious:
A local stockist is selling one of these. It's a striker-fired polymer pistol with a folding stock and RDS but can be carried concealed! Is it "overkill"? Is it a pistol making a poor impersonation of a carbine? It is a pistol that is no better, but more cumbersome than other pistols? Or does it do a good job of bridging the gap? At 2500EUR I certainly won't be buying one!
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November 10, 2017, 06:53 PM | #2 |
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No offense, but it just looks like another of those silly SMG wannabe things to me. I actually got paid to carry a firearm for most of my adult working life. I would have hated to be required to carry some bulky thing like that with all it's accouterments instead of a conventional pistol. Yea, I see it's about added range. FWIW, a reasonably good shot can make hits on a man sized target at 100 yards using iron sights on a plain old boring conventional pistol.
Practical use? It's certainly more practical in some circumstances than a single shot firearm, or no firearm at all......ymmv
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November 10, 2017, 08:03 PM | #3 |
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I agree - a "wannabe" and IMHO, just another person; or company's way of taking someones hard earned money for something that has little practice use. It might be "fun" for a while to have as a range toy, but I'm thinking a person would soon tire of it and it would be collecting dust. But, different strokes for different folks and if somebody likes it, then more power to them.
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November 11, 2017, 01:36 AM | #4 | |
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November 11, 2017, 05:38 AM | #5 |
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Looks like Napoleon Solo, Illya Kuryakin & April Dancer have a new toy .
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November 11, 2017, 12:29 PM | #6 | |
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Boil it down to the essentials. It is a 9mm Luger (aka 9x19mm Nato, aka 9mm Parabellum) pistol with magazines of 17,19, & 30 rounds (one each, supplied). Plastic frame, striker fired (no available information about the trigger pull), folding stock, optic sight and pistol light supplied. There appear to be no "iron sights". approximately 4.4" barrel. weighs about 2lbs (empty, I assume) Looks like you can't grab the rear of the slide, only the front, for cocking. The review didn't get to fire it, apparently didn't get to even pull the trigger either, as they can tell us nothing about it. They note the folding stock "appears robust enough" but again, no actual use trial was done, so we simply don't know. If the stock wiggles, wobbles or flexes when locked open, its actually worse than no stock at all. Using the stock, and dot sight to engage bad guys at 100m isn't something of importance for most of us. Threaded barrel allowing the use of a suppressor is nice, for those who can use one legally. Again, not a major concern for those of us in the USA (where the gun would not be private citizen legal anyway, because of the stock). AND, adding a suppressor adds several (8?) inches to the length, which works directly against ease of concealment. As a weapon for a security detail, it might have some use, but not as much as a select fire weapon, and I see it as inferior to a purpose built SBR (in a rifle caliber) for range. For personal self defense, you have a standard 9mm pistol with a 4" barrel, in a more bulky configuration (stock folded), which works against ease of use in a close range defense confrontation. More crap on the gun means its not as easy to draw, and fire fast. Maybe that's important to you, maybe its not. If the stock were easily detachable, it would make a difference, as you could choose to have it on the gun, or not. This does not seem to be the case, looks like stock is permanent, and your only choices are extended or folded. Even if it was legal, (and cheap) where I live, I wouldn't choose it.
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November 11, 2017, 01:07 PM | #7 |
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I've always thought one of these in .22lr would be a fun zombie gun. But since zombies don't exist I don't see much use. I'd probably buy one though
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November 11, 2017, 01:30 PM | #8 |
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"...another of those silly SMG wannabe things..." Exactly. A big kid's toy, that I believe would get him arrested, Stateside, if he's without the necessary permit.
However, that kind of stuff was all the rage since long before the 1800's. Turned a cavalryman's pistol into a carbine. Colt SAA, BHP, C96 Mauser, 1911's, etc, etc., all had stocks at one time or another.
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November 11, 2017, 02:22 PM | #9 |
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I'd rather have a FN P90 (esp. in 9mm) than a lot of these new takes on PDWs.....
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November 11, 2017, 02:40 PM | #10 |
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If I remember correctly... They are marketing this thing as a general issue police sidearm.
Meant to be the main duty weapon of an armed patrol officer. Mostly in Europe, where they may not be in a vehicle, and on foot or otherwise not in a position to have a larger weapon on standby. This would allow them to have greater firepower and long range accuracy should they need, without the appearance of carrying around a sling rifle or SMG.. |
November 11, 2017, 03:22 PM | #11 | |
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I could essentially buy one if I was rich and prone to immature impulse buying. Only one of those is true of me. Go on; have a guess....
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November 11, 2017, 03:49 PM | #12 |
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That is ugly as sin.
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November 11, 2017, 06:56 PM | #13 |
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I feel like a PDW or SMG would accomplish the role obviously better. As just a pistol it seems to be to be verging on the point of getting ungainly and I feel like I'd want to deploy the stock as almost SOP unless there was a threat in close contact. That said marine brings up a good point in that I imagine there are more foot officers in Europe than here. Here where every officer has a SBR or SBS in a cruiser this doesn't seem particularly useful. In a foot scenario this is sort of an unhappy medium. More capability but heavier than a typical pistol, but less capability than other options.
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November 14, 2017, 08:17 PM | #14 |
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I guess it depends how likely you're looking at "practical". If you're of the mindset to keep or prepare something like a bug out bag, I think it would go nicely (although pretty expensive for the purpose). If you're worried about getting out somewhere while still being able to carry a capable firearm, I think it's a neat little package. I'd much rather have the stock and red dot sight to a conventional pistol.
Could also be very good for home defense for people who need something easy to use. A 9mm handgun is difficult for some people to handle effectively and those same people may have difficulty using a shotgun or rifle. A PDW sized carbine with a dot and red dot sight would significantly improve handling over a standard pistol. Other than that, it's a pretty neat toy and I'd love to play with one.
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November 14, 2017, 10:28 PM | #15 |
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There is always something to keep the ammo companies happy, make a lot of useless noise, get the anti-gun gangsters all worked up, and serve no purpose whatsoever.
Most military forces have tossed the SMG as nearly useless in modern tactical situations at best and a dangerous bullet squirter at worst. A small carbine that plays at being an SMG is even more useless. Jim |
November 15, 2017, 02:36 AM | #16 |
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SMG's lack the power and range to be useful to military, lack the precision to be useful to the police. Very few LEA's still use them.
However, if I wanted a SMG for 2500EU I would simply buy one. Taking a pistol and slapping a suppressor, stock, sight and extended mag on it would likely give you a less reliable and cohesive package then a purpose built SMG.
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November 15, 2017, 12:35 PM | #17 | ||
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I think they dropped the SMG because the modern assault rifle (and especially the chopped carbine/compact versions) as more useful than the standard pistol caliber SMG. In other words, something that is (or can be) the size of an SMG and has double or triple the useful range and power gets the nod over the less capable (but not useless) SMG.
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November 18, 2017, 07:00 PM | #18 |
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SMGs that weighed as much as a rifle were replaced by intermediate rifles like the AK and AR automatic rifles. When SMGs got a lot smaller, they started filling the PDW roles (Vz61 Skorpion, Micro Uzi, MAC-10). Later, PDWs like the FN P90 & HK MP7 pushed SMGs aside, but not completely out.
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November 18, 2017, 07:15 PM | #19 |
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Without a barrel long enough to grip with your non trigger hand, I do not see the effective purpose of the folding stock. Even with a Kriss Vector or the new Sig Rattler you have room, albeit not much.
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November 20, 2017, 06:26 PM | #20 |
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Spy stuff
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November 20, 2017, 08:48 PM | #21 |
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I dunno about practical but I like it lol
Looks like a Sphinx SDP frame but the rest of it is different. If somebody wants to buy one for me I’ll gladly wear the title of wannabe!
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November 21, 2017, 10:02 AM | #22 |
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It's marginal self-defense for jackalopes and chupacabras, maybe walkers...maybe...
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November 21, 2017, 07:55 PM | #23 | ||
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There are better similar options IMO. These probably skirts some laws in foreign countries. |
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