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Old June 24, 2014, 11:00 PM   #1
Bezoar
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outdated technology

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloadi...hbwc-test.html

just how hard would it be to recreate these bullets?
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Old June 25, 2014, 04:24 AM   #2
nemesiss45
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Which bullet? I see like 5 or more in that thread
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Old June 25, 2014, 05:04 AM   #3
Mike / Tx
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I'm not sure after reading through that what you considered "outdated"?

If you are referring to the HBWC's there are plenty of those around, and they are still used by many folks. Some even still load them reversed like mentioned in that thread to use for dispatching small pest or other reasons.

Now if your talking about the old original version HS's,


I suppose if these are what you wanted, you could pick you up a set of swedging dies from Corbin, and some softer lead wire, or a core mold and make your own in whatever configuration you wanted. These would need to be almost pure as they would have to be formed in a press. It would be difficult to cast those with the noses like that as they would not be wanting to fall out of the mold very easily.

All that said, you can purchase molds made to pour HP's in a variety of calibers, styles and weights. They aren't cheap, but they can be had and DO make some great shooting bullets, and depending on the alloy they expand pretty well also,



Not only that but the standard SWC's can produce some nice results with the softer alloys as well,


Then there are the wide flat points which are also popular that again the alloy makes all the difference in what they can accomplish,
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Old June 25, 2014, 11:44 AM   #4
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In the early eightys the reversed HBWC was the SD fad. I read an article in a gun mag about them and found the results much the same as mine. At 5 yards they hit the point of aim in a 3" or so group, two hand held rested, 2" 38 Special. Any farther, up to 25 feet, and the accuracy deteriorated. At 50', indoors an 18"-24" group was good and a lot of tumbling (I could keep all my shots with "normal" reloads in -10" group, two handed standing). Needless to say accuracy was bad, but for SD, OK, i guess.

The magazine article had reported some penetration tests also. On denim covered gel the huge hollow point would most often clog with denim, and have poor to fair penetration. (I tried shooting into wet newsprint and got mostly the same; clogged cavities and no mushrooming). Some of the reversed bullets the walls of the cavity would collapse and tumble or veer off a very short way into the gel. Only about 10%-15% of the shots would give the "classic" mushroom up to twice the caliber.

Jes what I read and experienced. I guess with a straight on close encounter the reversed bullets would work, but there are better preforming, more reliable bullets on the market today.

FWIW, my house gun (often my 2" 38) uses 150 grain double ended wadcutters over a hefty load of W231. Huge flat point would deliver good shock, and no over penetration (I have close neighbors!).
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Old June 25, 2014, 01:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by mikld:

In the early eightys the reversed HBWC was the SD fad.
....the poor man's "flying ashtray".
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Old June 25, 2014, 05:19 PM   #6
Cheapshooter
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Quote:
just how hard would it be to recreate these bullets?
If you are referring to bullets to be used for railroading, not hard at all because they are still currently produced by several companies. If you are referring to casting your own, I'm not sure the molds are still in production, but you might be able to find a used one. (There is a 141gr. HBWC Lyman mold up for bid on eBay)
If you are referring to loaded ammunition as "bullets", I don't know of any companies producing reversed hollow based wad cutter loads.
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Old June 25, 2014, 06:14 PM   #7
Bezoar
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the original hydrashok slug.
thats what im curious about. it has the best blend that ive seen in alot of bullet styles. you get the explosive expansion as the hp opens and explodes. and then the core punches through.

that design has to be pumped in a 6 inch 38. look how much fun it could be with the 32 magnum or 327 federal.

Last edited by Bezoar; June 25, 2014 at 08:34 PM. Reason: completeness of thought
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Old June 26, 2014, 04:41 AM   #8
Mike / Tx
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What your looking for can pretty easily be accomplished with cast HP's, especially if your pouring your own. It can be done by pouring with an alloy around a 10 BHN or with one up around a 14.

What happens in either case is the bullet hits, and the nose either rolls back into a doughnut and the core punches on through, in the case of the soft. Or it impacts, expands, and the nose breaks into separate pieces as the base continues to penetrate.

In either case however the velocity will determine the amount of either. I have gone from both sides of this to try and figure out a happy medium with my revolvers. As pictured above, (those with the blue background) were part of the first attempt to curtail this from happening. While they DO expand REALLY well, and hold together great, they indeed expand further than I want them too. On the other end of that, I also have a baggie of more or less cores, that shed the noses into either the doughnuts or pieces.

One other thing that can easily be done with the harder cast HP is to set them in a pan of water with just the cavity sticking out, then take a propane torch and heat them up some to anneal just the cups. While this DOES work, it is much more of a pain than to simply start with some alloy that will already do what your wanting. Using a HP poured from air cooled straight clip on wheel weight would give the expansion, and shatter effect from the noses leaving the base to drive on through.
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