Which technique do you prefer when pairing a flashlight with a handgun? Why? - Page 2

obxned · August 14, 2009, 10:03 AM

Some of these methods work well with lights that use a switch on the body of the light, others work better with lights with the switch in the tail cap.

Rob Pincus · August 15, 2009, 07:38 AM

Here are my thoughts on the subject:

I have rarely seen the popular techniques do anything but slow people down. Combine that with the fact that there are very rarely truly pitch black circumstances and I tend to find most "techniques" over mechanical and over thought.

Flashlight Technique Article

-RJP

Dr Raoul Duke · August 16, 2009, 10:51 AM

I use the Harries technique, as it has worked well for me. I like the idea of the FBI technique, as flashlights are bullet magnets.

Dr. Raoul Duke
Gonzo Forever

Hardtarget · August 16, 2009, 10:45 PM

I didn't vote because I've never actually tried any of them. I find it hard to find a way to practice low light shooting. Even though I have property and a private range..there are neighbors. We have always stopped shooting well before dark to be good neighbors. Maybe I need to invite them over for some flashlight technique range time. If they are helping make the noise...they can't complain!

Mark

BillCA · August 17, 2009, 07:16 AM

I'm with Pax and others - Harris & FBI technique.

The FBI technique was the one I was first taught, but I'm not wedded to it. It's best used with flashlights with side-mounted switches. One can hold the light "dagger style" and over the shoulder to distort your height while allowing a fast defensive swing if needed. Or you can hold it out to the side in a normal flashlight mode.

I'm inclined to use the FBI if I'm searching a large area or indoors in office buildings. A light held high can reveal lots of interesting things (like a ball cap moving down an aisle!

)

I've used the Harris technique off and on. If I can hear someone or see someone AND I'm using a Surefire or tail-cap light, I prefer it for the support.

A caution: I've discontinued the Harris for room entries. With a bright surefire light, you will blind yourself if you enter a room unware of a mirror or large glass window. Using a "low FBI" technique seems to work better for me.

With uber-bright tac lights, looking into it is usually so painful that most people shooting back will shoot blind, so the FBI style's distance advantage is moot. But with a mag light, you can still try to shoot at it because their lights aren't generally really painful to look at.

Bouncing the bright beam of a surefire off the white ceiling of a room, when you're a couple of feet from the door, works well to see into the room with minimal exposure and see it's layout too.

Ian0351 · August 17, 2009, 01:43 PM

Excellent post Bill, thank you. Makes me think maybe I need to invest in a SureFire. I have always been a mag light user, but the many tactical uses of the super bright light does certainly have it's appeal, as does the smaller size.

Father Time · August 17, 2009, 03:43 PM

No need to buy a new light IAN, just get a drop-in LED bulb for you maglite. Its what I did, its just as bright as surefire without the cost

BillCA · August 18, 2009, 12:45 AM

One of the beauties of the SureFire is its smaller/lighter size and the momentary tail-cap button. I like MagLites and use 'em, but the tactical lights are more likely to be in my pocket than a maglite.

My preferred maglight is actually the C-Cell versions, for two reasons. First is that the smaller diameter lights are not only lighter, but easier to grip. Second is that they will fit in a standard police baton ring that can be attached to your belt. This allows you to carry it hands free when necesary, yet have it available.

armsmaster270 · August 18, 2009, 03:56 AM

FBI It is what I was taught and am familiar with and I have had good results with practice.
Flashlights I have and use
Streamlight Stinger DS LED, Ultra Stinger, SL-20, SL_20X, Surefire 6P and S&W 6P Clone.

Glenn Dee · September 27, 2009, 12:15 PM

I noticed an option of not paring a flashlight with a handgun wasnt available. Why not?

Stevie-Ray · September 27, 2009, 12:52 PM

I generally use the Harries method, but just found out there was a name for it.

Like pax and others, I seem to throw the FBI method in there at times.

Brit · October 1, 2009, 03:26 AM

Hargreaves Lite-Touch

It is instant off and on with base button. Plus I know him!

Charles S · October 1, 2009, 02:31 PM

Most all of the techniques in the poll have their strengths and weaknesses. A course in the use of a tactical light at night where one is taught various techniques and then puts them to actual use will really broaden your perspective.

There IMHO is no perfect technique and, after training, I use several fluidly depending upon the situation, available cover, ambient lighting, and my stance at the moment. Ideally everyone should carry a light, everyone should be trained with the use of a light, and everyone should have a backup light.

Training is our friend.

Without answering the poll... and to answer the question if limited to one technique I think I would choose the neck index technique.

domininance · October 1, 2009, 05:29 PM

in tactical pistol class we learned the chapman. we discussed almost all of the styles shown, but because the class taught modern isosceles the chapman is most conducive to what we were learning. we also did a little neck index and fbi method.

my advice, get comfortable with a couple styles so that you can have the skills to survive any situation. the way I see it, you should pick one or two styles that you like that presents both the gun and flashlight straight ahead in front of you, such as the harries, marines, chapman, ayoob, and keller techniques. for me this is the chapman.

next, you should be semi proficient with the FBI and neck index techniques. these two styles coupled with one or two from above, you should have all your bases covered.

-Dom

KSFreeman · October 1, 2009, 06:48 PM

Hank, it really depends on what one needs to do, all have pros and cons.

E.g., Harries tehcnique may be stabilish (all flashlight shooting is one handed shooting), it stinks for a right handed shooter who is pieing or rolling out left.

Learn as much as you can. See what you like. See what works for you. Some things will not, some things will. For example, I find that Clint Smith's suggested technique (on link posted infra) barely works for me as his XL mitts do this better than my L hands.

I often use a modified cigar/Rogers technique with the bottom two finds of my support hand griping my strong hand. However, I've seen all kinds of stuff in training including an older individual who, because of his eyes, pressed the light on top of his head while inside and used the ambient light to see (no, I'm not kidding, I was just in an Awerbuck class with him).

For flashlights I use the Streamlight TL-2. I love the ring (Tiger's ring is much handier than the figure 8s we used to twist from duct tape back in the old days), works great during manipulations.

http://www.comforthouse.com/flashlight1.html

FM12 · October 3, 2009, 12:34 PM

Any method that puts the flashlight behind my pistol! Don't want toshoot the handthat feeds me. Work on a few, dont get caught with your light and gun in your hand wondering what to do next.

matthew temkin · October 3, 2009, 03:44 PM

What Iano351 stated.

N.H. Yankee · October 4, 2009, 06:51 PM

They have a light out now that strobes and is strong enough to disorient whoever its aimed at, though I am not sure of its actual ability to be used as a flashlight. OK, someone bring up, yeah but what if they're wearing sunglasses at night

Perhaps that would be the way to go if one is afraid of giving away their position, and it can double as a flashlight.

I think if someone is shooting at you with buckshot I don't think any hold is going to keep you from getting hit unless your behind a barricade. Also when aiming a standard light you have to have a good idea where the person is too attempt to blind them with the beam.

There are drawbacks with most anything, if you have to search with the beam you are a target, and a lucky shot could hit home. I think the strobe beam may have a wider field of effectiveness, but not knowing the cost they may be a bit pricey for the average consumer. I think I recall it being advertised as a weapon of self defense due to the disorienting effect.

mrghostwalker · October 5, 2009, 10:32 PM

I use the Harris because that's what was taught to me when I became a Police Officer. I haven't changed because-
1- it's in-grained and instinctive
2- It doesn't require me to compromise my grip
3- It works well with revolvers and semi-autos

38super · October 9, 2009, 10:43 AM

Neither, I use Firstlight.

James K · October 9, 2009, 06:06 PM

You should do like the ads in the gunzines - attach the light directly to the gun, and place the gun directly in front of your face. That way when the BG uses the light as a target, you will get your fool head blown off and no longer be a burden to your family.

Jim

jfruser · October 12, 2009, 05:54 PM

I voted FBI not because it is preferred, but it is the technique I use most.

See, most times I have a drawn weapon & light at night is in my home....and something has gone "bump."

FBI allows me to use whichever light is at hand: big/small, Surefire/Maglight, whatever.

FBI also allows me to scan my house more quickly and without having to sweep every square inch of my house with my weapon. I am kinda anal with regard to Rule #2 and do not want to sweep my kids on the other side of two thin gypsum boards.

Those few times when I have gotten a tingly or definitely wanted weapon/light alignment, I have used Harries or Ayoob. Harries if a light, tail-cap-switch. Ayoob for larger or side-switch lights.

I think it behooves hte shooter to know more than one technique and transition to the most advantageous for the task at hand.

jfruser · October 12, 2009, 06:05 PM

I'd like to add that in the home, the flashlight is my secondary weapon and "reload", maybe primary if the backstop is inadequate or ends in the kid's room.

That's why I am partial to 3D LED Maglights in the home. They are heavy & hard enough to cause serious/lethal injury. FBI allows a ready position with the Maglight. I am usually dressed for bed, so spare mags are not going to be carried. If it is serious enough for a spare mag, I am staying put and using Mr. Twelve Gauge and his Streamlight mounted on the side.

Outside the home, my Surefire 6P LED is my buddy.

mustang_steve · October 12, 2009, 09:32 PM

I use a variation of the Harries technique.

Why? Because I have a tailcap switch, and the hand placement is comfortable and controllable for me. My variation is the flashlight is almost under the pistol though. this is due to my watch being worn on my off-arm (I'm a southpaw that shoots right-handed, thus watch on left wrist).

Yes, I do sleep with my watch on.

12GaugeLosAngeles · October 12, 2009, 11:25 PM

Harries... cause you can turn off and on the light while shooting, with one hand.. and you can simply drop the light, cause i like using the front of the trigger guard to get a solid grip on the gun... what ever gets the bullets in the bad guy, but a gun mounted light, and a handheld light are good too.... as long as your handheld light is your primary light... i always thought, cops walking around with surefire's on their glocks, is a dead give away for miles, a harries technique... you can "strobe" through corners and if you light hits someone, the strobe action leaves them seeing a big blob of white (or blue or green depending on your light) try hitting yourself with your own light, you respect a 7Watt light and up...

View Poll Results: Which technique do you prefer when pairing a flashlight with a handgun?
Harries	47	55.95%
Marine Corps	2	2.38%
Chapman	1	1.19%
Ayoob	2	2.38%
FBI	18	21.43%
Hargreaves Lite-Touch	1	1.19%
Keller Technique	0	0%
Neck-Index	9	10.71%
Rogers/Surefire	4	4.76%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

August 14, 2009, 10:03 AM	#26
obxned Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2007 Location: OBX, NC Posts: 1,128	Some of these methods work well with lights that use a switch on the body of the light, others work better with lights with the switch in the tail cap. __________________ “If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth.” Ronald Reagan I'm a proud member of a North Carolina *Committee of Safety*

August 15, 2009, 07:38 AM	#27
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	Here are my thoughts on the subject: I have rarely seen the popular techniques do anything but slow people down. Combine that with the fact that there are very rarely truly pitch black circumstances and I tend to find most "techniques" over mechanical and over thought. Flashlight Technique Article -RJP __________________ I.C.E. Training Company. LinkedIn Profile for Rob Pincus

August 16, 2009, 10:45 PM	#29
Hardtarget Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2001 Location: Nashville, Tn. Posts: 683	I didn't vote because I've never actually tried any of them. I find it hard to find a way to practice low light shooting. Even though I have property and a private range..there are neighbors. We have always stopped shooting well before dark to be good neighbors. Maybe I need to invite them over for some flashlight technique range time. If they are helping make the noise...they can't complain! Mark __________________ ...even a blind hog finds an acorn every once in a while.

August 17, 2009, 07:16 AM	#30
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	I'm with Pax and others - Harris & FBI technique. The FBI technique was the one I was first taught, but I'm not wedded to it. It's best used with flashlights with side-mounted switches. One can hold the light "dagger style" and over the shoulder to distort your height while allowing a fast defensive swing if needed. Or you can hold it out to the side in a normal flashlight mode. I'm inclined to use the FBI if I'm searching a large area or indoors in office buildings. A light held high can reveal lots of interesting things (like a ball cap moving down an aisle! ) I've used the Harris technique off and on. If I can hear someone or see someone AND I'm using a Surefire or tail-cap light, I prefer it for the support. A caution: I've discontinued the Harris for room entries. With a bright surefire light, you will blind yourself if you enter a room unware of a mirror or large glass window. Using a "low FBI" technique seems to work better for me. With uber-bright tac lights, looking into it is usually so painful that most people shooting back will shoot blind, so the FBI style's distance advantage is moot. But with a mag light, you can still try to shoot at it because their lights aren't generally really painful to look at. Bouncing the bright beam of a surefire off the white ceiling of a room, when you're a couple of feet from the door, works well to see into the room with minimal exposure and see it's layout too. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

August 16, 2009, 10:51 AM	#28
Dr Raoul Duke Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: On the Left Coast of North America Posts: 104	I use the Harries technique, as it has worked well for me. I like the idea of the FBI technique, as flashlights are bullet magnets. Dr. Raoul Duke Gonzo Forever

August 17, 2009, 01:43 PM	#31
Ian0351 Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2009 Location: Washington Posts: 414	Excellent post Bill, thank you. Makes me think maybe I need to invest in a SureFire. I have always been a mag light user, but the many tactical uses of the super bright light does certainly have it's appeal, as does the smaller size. __________________ You can have your churches, I'll keep my guns. Just keep your hands off my paycheck and your eyes out of my backyard. Join the Libertarian Party! http://www.lp.org Semper Fidelis

August 17, 2009, 03:43 PM	#32
Father Time Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2007 Posts: 637	No need to buy a new light IAN, just get a drop-in LED bulb for you maglite. Its what I did, its just as bright as surefire without the cost

August 18, 2009, 12:45 AM	#33
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	One of the beauties of the SureFire is its smaller/lighter size and the momentary tail-cap button. I like MagLites and use 'em, but the tactical lights are more likely to be in my pocket than a maglite. My preferred maglight is actually the C-Cell versions, for two reasons. First is that the smaller diameter lights are not only lighter, but easier to grip. Second is that they will fit in a standard police baton ring that can be attached to your belt. This allows you to carry it hands free when necesary, yet have it available. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

August 18, 2009, 03:56 AM	#34
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	FBI It is what I was taught and am familiar with and I have had good results with practice. Flashlights I have and use Streamlight Stinger DS LED, Ultra Stinger, SL-20, SL_20X, Surefire 6P and S&W 6P Clone. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

September 27, 2009, 12:15 PM	#35
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	I noticed an option of not paring a flashlight with a handgun wasnt available. Why not?

September 27, 2009, 12:52 PM	#36
Stevie-Ray Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: The shores of Lake Huron Posts: 4,783	I generally use the Harries method, but just found out there was a name for it. Like pax and others, I seem to throw the FBI method in there at times. __________________ Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.

October 1, 2009, 03:26 AM	#37
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	Hargreaves Lite-Touch It is instant off and on with base button. Plus I know him!

October 1, 2009, 02:31 PM	#38
Charles S Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2002 Location: North East Texas Posts: 950	Most all of the techniques in the poll have their strengths and weaknesses. A course in the use of a tactical light at night where one is taught various techniques and then puts them to actual use will really broaden your perspective. There IMHO is no perfect technique and, after training, I use several fluidly depending upon the situation, available cover, ambient lighting, and my stance at the moment. Ideally everyone should carry a light, everyone should be trained with the use of a light, and everyone should have a backup light. Training is our friend. Without answering the poll... and to answer the question if limited to one technique I think I would choose the neck index technique. __________________ "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

October 1, 2009, 05:29 PM	#39
domininance Member Join Date: September 5, 2009 Location: The Southern Socialist Republic of California Posts: 23	chapman in tactical pistol class we learned the chapman. we discussed almost all of the styles shown, but because the class taught modern isosceles the chapman is most conducive to what we were learning. we also did a little neck index and fbi method. my advice, get comfortable with a couple styles so that you can have the skills to survive any situation. the way I see it, you should pick one or two styles that you like that presents both the gun and flashlight straight ahead in front of you, such as the harries, marines, chapman, ayoob, and keller techniques. for me this is the chapman. next, you should be semi proficient with the FBI and neck index techniques. these two styles coupled with one or two from above, you should have all your bases covered. -Dom __________________ DOMININANCE: (noun, verb) a lot like dominance but spelled wrong. Guns don't kill people, California gun laws do.

October 1, 2009, 06:48 PM	#40
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Hank, it really depends on what one needs to do, all have pros and cons. E.g., Harries tehcnique may be stabilish (all flashlight shooting is one handed shooting), it stinks for a right handed shooter who is pieing or rolling out left. Learn as much as you can. See what you like. See what works for you. Some things will not, some things will. For example, I find that Clint Smith's suggested technique (on link posted infra) barely works for me as his XL mitts do this better than my L hands. I often use a modified cigar/Rogers technique with the bottom two finds of my support hand griping my strong hand. However, I've seen all kinds of stuff in training including an older individual who, because of his eyes, pressed the light on top of his head while inside and used the ambient light to see (no, I'm not kidding, I was just in an Awerbuck class with him). For flashlights I use the Streamlight TL-2. I love the ring (Tiger's ring is much handier than the figure 8s we used to twist from duct tape back in the old days), works great during manipulations. http://www.comforthouse.com/flashlight1.html __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

October 3, 2009, 12:34 PM	#41
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	Any method that puts the flashlight behind my pistol! Don't want toshoot the handthat feeds me. Work on a few, dont get caught with your light and gun in your hand wondering what to do next.

October 3, 2009, 03:44 PM	#42
matthew temkin Junior member Join Date: June 7, 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 363	What Iano351 stated.

October 4, 2009, 06:51 PM	#43
N.H. Yankee Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2004 Location: Rural N.H. Posts: 1,586	They have a light out now that strobes and is strong enough to disorient whoever its aimed at, though I am not sure of its actual ability to be used as a flashlight. OK, someone bring up, yeah but what if they're wearing sunglasses at night Perhaps that would be the way to go if one is afraid of giving away their position, and it can double as a flashlight. I think if someone is shooting at you with buckshot I don't think any hold is going to keep you from getting hit unless your behind a barricade. Also when aiming a standard light you have to have a good idea where the person is too attempt to blind them with the beam. There are drawbacks with most anything, if you have to search with the beam you are a target, and a lucky shot could hit home. I think the strobe beam may have a wider field of effectiveness, but not knowing the cost they may be a bit pricey for the average consumer. I think I recall it being advertised as a weapon of self defense due to the disorienting effect. __________________ The real danger to America is not abroad but within.. Having an open mind is a good thing, but not so open that your brains fall out! Save America, abort liberalism.

October 5, 2009, 10:32 PM	#44
mrghostwalker Member Join Date: August 4, 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 34	I use the Harris because that's what was taught to me when I became a Police Officer. I haven't changed because- 1- it's in-grained and instinctive 2- It doesn't require me to compromise my grip 3- It works well with revolvers and semi-autos __________________ -mrghostwalker And this be our motto: "In God is our trust" And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

October 9, 2009, 10:43 AM	#45
38super Junior member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 46	Neither, I use Firstlight.

October 9, 2009, 06:06 PM	#46
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	You should do like the ads in the gunzines - attach the light directly to the gun, and place the gun directly in front of your face. That way when the BG uses the light as a target, you will get your fool head blown off and no longer be a burden to your family. Jim

October 12, 2009, 05:54 PM	#47
jfruser Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 350	I voted FBI not because it is preferred, but it is the technique I use most. See, most times I have a drawn weapon & light at night is in my home....and something has gone "bump." FBI allows me to use whichever light is at hand: big/small, Surefire/Maglight, whatever. FBI also allows me to scan my house more quickly and without having to sweep every square inch of my house with my weapon. I am kinda anal with regard to Rule #2 and do not want to sweep my kids on the other side of two thin gypsum boards. Those few times when I have gotten a tingly or definitely wanted weapon/light alignment, I have used Harries or Ayoob. Harries if a light, tail-cap-switch. Ayoob for larger or side-switch lights. I think it behooves hte shooter to know more than one technique and transition to the most advantageous for the task at hand. __________________ Regards, jfruser "Books and bullets have their own destinies."----Bob Ross

October 12, 2009, 06:05 PM	#48
jfruser Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 350	I'd like to add that in the home, the flashlight is my secondary weapon and "reload", maybe primary if the backstop is inadequate or ends in the kid's room. That's why I am partial to 3D LED Maglights in the home. They are heavy & hard enough to cause serious/lethal injury. FBI allows a ready position with the Maglight. I am usually dressed for bed, so spare mags are not going to be carried. If it is serious enough for a spare mag, I am staying put and using Mr. Twelve Gauge and his Streamlight mounted on the side. Outside the home, my Surefire 6P LED is my buddy. __________________ Regards, jfruser "Books and bullets have their own destinies."----Bob Ross

October 12, 2009, 09:32 PM	#49
mustang_steve Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 31	I use a variation of the Harries technique. Why? Because I have a tailcap switch, and the hand placement is comfortable and controllable for me. My variation is the flashlight is almost under the pistol though. this is due to my watch being worn on my off-arm (I'm a southpaw that shoots right-handed, thus watch on left wrist). Yes, I do sleep with my watch on. Last edited by mustang_steve; October 12, 2009 at 09:38 PM.

October 12, 2009, 11:25 PM	#50
12GaugeLosAngeles Junior member Join Date: October 5, 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 81	Harries... cause you can turn off and on the light while shooting, with one hand.. and you can simply drop the light, cause i like using the front of the trigger guard to get a solid grip on the gun... what ever gets the bullets in the bad guy, but a gun mounted light, and a handheld light are good too.... as long as your handheld light is your primary light... i always thought, cops walking around with surefire's on their glocks, is a dead give away for miles, a harries technique... you can "strobe" through corners and if you light hits someone, the strobe action leaves them seeing a big blob of white (or blue or green depending on your light) try hitting yourself with your own light, you respect a 7Watt light and up...