what to do............

dreamweaver · January 3, 2011, 08:51 PM

this might not be the right forum. mods feel free to move.

some time ago i purchased a surplus vietnam era m16 parts kit.
complete upper, barrel, period grip, forearm, and all the small parts (sights, delta assembly etc.). problem is, it has an m16 lpk, including the auto sear.
my understanding is that if i purchase a stripped lower it would be considered intent to build a machine gun, an very illegal.
if i buy a ar15 lpk, how much of the m16 parts need to go? is there any market for the m16 lpk? i don't see any for sale on the forums.
thanks for any info/guidance.

medalguy · January 3, 2011, 10:31 PM

There's a lot of noise about M16 parts out there. My own understanding is that if you have a SET of parts needed to convert an AR-15 AND the properly machined lower, you are in constructive possession. Others have said that mere possession of an M16 bolt carrier is a problem. If I were you, in the interest of erring on the safe side, I would ditch all parts that are used ONLY in the M16, but I'd feel OK keeping the parts that can be used in either gun. Same situation as the M1/M2 carbine. Hammer, sear, trigger housing, all OK but trip lever, disconnector, and selector switch are no-no.

David Hineline · January 3, 2011, 11:04 PM

There are people who want your parts, and might be willing to trade you new parts for your build.

Your problem parts would be the 3 position selector, the hammer with the extra hook on it, the disconnector with the extended tail on it to run with the 3 position selector.

You would be ok to keep the F/A carrier as Colt shipped many semi rifles with one, the F/A Safety sear will not fit in your receiver so it is nothing more than a necklace ornament,

I would post on Subguns.com under $500 board that you want to trade all the Full Auto Parts for semi auto parts and you might get a bite.

If you want to use your parts, cut the back hook off the hammer, cut the tail off the disconnector, toss the 3 position selector or trade it and your safety sear for a nice semi auto selector.

Joat · January 4, 2011, 10:51 AM

Also depends on what state you live in. Some states regulate full auto parts, including FA bolts, to a greater degree than even the feds. (Washington, I think?)
Check your local/state laws.

joat

demigod · January 4, 2011, 03:09 PM

Sell the parts on one of the AR forums. These kits are still available, it's nothing to get all a$$ed up about.

As stated, you should sell the hammer, trigger, disconnector, and sear.

Some people grind of the hook on the back of the hammer and use it that way.

Edward429451 · January 4, 2011, 03:53 PM

My understanding is that possession of any of the parts constitutes a reserved room in jail for you (Constitutional or not) and a good case for your Atty with no guarentee.

too much risk for little to no advantage. I'm not sure why anyone would want a FA gun, except maybe if you was walkin point and had more buddies near who would hear the shots.

Sell the parts? Ha! You can't trust anyone on any forum no matter how cool they sound. Can you sell he parts for as much as a Lawyer will want just in case?

David Hineline · January 4, 2011, 10:58 PM

My understanding is that possession of any of the parts constitutes a reserved room in jail for you (Constitutional or not) and a good case for your Atty with no guarentee.

too much risk for little to no advantage. I'm not sure why anyone would want a FA gun, except maybe if you was walkin point and had more buddies near who would hear the shots.

Sell the parts? Ha! You can't trust anyone on any forum no matter how cool they sound. Can you sell he parts for as much as a Lawyer will want just in case?

Well sir you are totally incorrect but that is your god given right, I suspect you are not really from Colorado, but more likely a California implant.

medalguy · January 4, 2011, 11:00 PM

No, mere possession of a few parts is not a violation unless you have a receiver in which the parts will constitute a machine gun, at least under federal law.

As stated in my earlier post, sell/trade the M16 only parts and you should be fine. However check on your state laws before proceeding.

By the way, a FA gun is a lot of fun. If you've never fed one, try it one day.

**44 AMP** · January 22, 2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

No, mere possession of a few parts is not a violation unless you have a receiver in which the parts will constitute a machine gun, at least under federal law.

I would check with the BATFE on this. I know that at one time, the BATF considered the auto sear, all by itself, as a machine gun for legal purposes. The BATF has also been known to change its mind on things from time to time. Do not take the opinion of an agent over the phone, get a letter in writing, signed by an agent/director of an office to be covered legally.

Without a lower reciever, to make the fun, er gun, you should be ok owning the FA parts, BUT get a written decision from the ATF to be sure. In the past, people have been prosecuted just for having (certain) FA parts in their posession. It seems to be a matter of who is in office, determining what kind of cases the ATF pursues. This is a legal quagmire, so something in writing is your best defense, should someone in the Bureau decide your parts are not legal. Contacting a firearms lawyer (regular criminal layers usually do not have the detailed experience to give sound advice) would not be a bad idea, either.

MisterPX · January 23, 2011, 12:01 AM

If you plan on building the rifle, modify the FA parts as mentioned, and toss teh auto sear. You can use teh FA safety, as it will still only fire in semi.

gyvel · January 23, 2011, 02:58 AM

Quote:

M1/M2 carbine. Hammer, sear, trigger housing, all OK

No. M2 hammer=NFA part. M2 sear=NFA part. M2 trigger housing=NFA part.

gyvel · January 23, 2011, 03:03 AM

Regarding your 16 parts, I have "heard" (but not seen in writing), that M16 bolt carriers in AR 15s are ok, much the same way that ATF (supposedly) said it was "ok" to have an M2 heavy bolt in an M1 carbine.

The hammer, if you want to use it, can have the secondary sear lug ground off to make it legal, but the remainder of the parts (trigger, selector, disconnector and "flip sear") I would lose.

Now, having said this, "I am not a lawyer."

James K · January 23, 2011, 12:13 PM

BATFE PR is interesting. They put out a poster for display in gun shops showing AR15 and M16 parts and the difference. But it does NOT say that the M16 parts, either separately or as a combination, are actually illegal to own or under what conditions they are illegal. They hint, and the whole concept is "don't touch or Big Brother will smack your fingers." But they don't actually say that.

(FWIW, the heavy bolt in the Carbine did not go with the M2 conversion (though I recommend it); it was intended and used as a replacement bolt for both M1 and M2 carbines, and has never been on any BATFE list of parts that make up the "M2 kit.")

Jim

January 3, 2011, 08:51 PM	#1
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	what to do............ this might not be the right forum. mods feel free to move. some time ago i purchased a surplus vietnam era m16 parts kit. complete upper, barrel, period grip, forearm, and all the small parts (sights, delta assembly etc.). problem is, it has an m16 lpk, including the auto sear. my understanding is that if i purchase a stripped lower it would be considered intent to build a machine gun, an very illegal. if i buy a ar15 lpk, how much of the m16 parts need to go? is there any market for the m16 lpk? i don't see any for sale on the forums. thanks for any info/guidance. __________________ http://takdriver.com/

January 4, 2011, 10:51 AM	#4
Joat Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2008 Location: Dayton, TX Posts: 383	Also depends on what state you live in. Some states regulate full auto parts, including FA bolts, to a greater degree than even the feds. (Washington, I think?) Check your local/state laws. joat __________________ All things being equal, fat people use more soap. (I know I am one.) High speed, low drag does not even come close to describing ME.

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January 3, 2011, 10:31 PM	#2
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	There's a lot of noise about M16 parts out there. My own understanding is that if you have a SET of parts needed to convert an AR-15 AND the properly machined lower, you are in constructive possession. Others have said that mere possession of an M16 bolt carrier is a problem. If I were you, in the interest of erring on the safe side, I would ditch all parts that are used ONLY in the M16, but I'd feel OK keeping the parts that can be used in either gun. Same situation as the M1/M2 carbine. Hammer, sear, trigger housing, all OK but trip lever, disconnector, and selector switch are no-no.

January 3, 2011, 11:04 PM	#3
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	There are people who want your parts, and might be willing to trade you new parts for your build. Your problem parts would be the 3 position selector, the hammer with the extra hook on it, the disconnector with the extended tail on it to run with the 3 position selector. You would be ok to keep the F/A carrier as Colt shipped many semi rifles with one, the F/A Safety sear will not fit in your receiver so it is nothing more than a necklace ornament, I would post on Subguns.com under $500 board that you want to trade all the Full Auto Parts for semi auto parts and you might get a bite. If you want to use your parts, cut the back hook off the hammer, cut the tail off the disconnector, toss the 3 position selector or trade it and your safety sear for a nice semi auto selector.

January 4, 2011, 03:09 PM	#5
demigod Junior member Join Date: March 13, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 1,129	Sell the parts on one of the AR forums. These kits are still available, it's nothing to get all a$$ed up about. As stated, you should sell the hammer, trigger, disconnector, and sear. Some people grind of the hook on the back of the hammer and use it that way.

January 4, 2011, 03:53 PM	#6
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	My understanding is that possession of any of the parts constitutes a reserved room in jail for you (Constitutional or not) and a good case for your Atty with no guarentee. too much risk for little to no advantage. I'm not sure why anyone would want a FA gun, except maybe if you was walkin point and had more buddies near who would hear the shots. Sell the parts? Ha! You can't trust anyone on any forum no matter how cool they sound. Can you sell he parts for as much as a Lawyer will want just in case?

January 4, 2011, 10:58 PM	#7
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	My understanding is that possession of any of the parts constitutes a reserved room in jail for you (Constitutional or not) and a good case for your Atty with no guarentee. too much risk for little to no advantage. I'm not sure why anyone would want a FA gun, except maybe if you was walkin point and had more buddies near who would hear the shots. Sell the parts? Ha! You can't trust anyone on any forum no matter how cool they sound. Can you sell he parts for as much as a Lawyer will want just in case? Well sir you are totally incorrect but that is your god given right, I suspect you are not really from Colorado, but more likely a California implant.

January 4, 2011, 11:00 PM	#8
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	No, mere possession of a few parts is not a violation unless you have a receiver in which the parts will constitute a machine gun, at least under federal law. As stated in my earlier post, sell/trade the M16 only parts and you should be fine. However check on your state laws before proceeding. By the way, a FA gun is a lot of fun. If you've never fed one, try it one day.

January 23, 2011, 12:01 AM	#10
MisterPX Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2006 Location: Amerika's Doyleland Posts: 809	If you plan on building the rifle, modify the FA parts as mentioned, and toss teh auto sear. You can use teh FA safety, as it will still only fire in semi.

January 23, 2011, 03:03 AM	#12
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Regarding your 16 parts, I have "heard" (but not seen in writing), that M16 bolt carriers in AR 15s are ok, much the same way that ATF (supposedly) said it was "ok" to have an M2 heavy bolt in an M1 carbine. The hammer, if you want to use it, can have the secondary sear lug ground off to make it legal, but the remainder of the parts (trigger, selector, disconnector and "flip sear") I would lose. Now, having said this, "I am not a lawyer."

January 23, 2011, 12:13 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	BATFE PR is interesting. They put out a poster for display in gun shops showing AR15 and M16 parts and the difference. But it does NOT say that the M16 parts, either separately or as a combination, are actually illegal to own or under what conditions they are illegal. They hint, and the whole concept is "don't touch or Big Brother will smack your fingers." But they don't actually say that. (FWIW, the heavy bolt in the Carbine did not go with the M2 conversion (though I recommend it); it was intended and used as a replacement bolt for both M1 and M2 carbines, and has never been on any BATFE list of parts that make up the "M2 kit.") Jim