Just picked up a beauty...

Stonefly_Soldier · May 25, 2011, 01:24 AM

... I'll tell everyone about it once somebody identifies it.

Edit... Removed pic due to issues with the hosting service (will use photobucket next time)

Dave Anderson · May 25, 2011, 01:55 AM

Llama M87 9mm competition model.

Stonefly_Soldier · May 25, 2011, 02:03 AM

Dead on... I've been tinkering with it since I picked it up this afternoon and it feels solid. Got it for 475 and tax. I'll do a formal range report on Thursday when I get some range time.

(will repost pics with photobucket)

AustinTX · May 25, 2011, 02:33 AM

Interesting guns. I never have been able to shoot one or even inspect the M82 or M87 on the inside. It would be nice to see some pictures of the inside of the frame and slide, if you get a chance.

It's obviously Beretta 92ish in appearance in several respects. Even though it has a closed slide, I believe it still uses the P38/92-style falling locking block system, if memory serves. That dual safety set-up on the M87 is definitely unusual. Is the slide lever only a decocker?

Congrats on your new addition. Sounds like you got it at a nice price, too. Looking forward to your range report.

scottl · May 25, 2011, 09:18 AM

Stonefly,
Did you know your imagehost pops up some young teen webcam page?
You might want to switch to Photobucket.

Dave Anderson · May 25, 2011, 09:59 AM

The M87 was imported to the U.S. from 1989-1993. MSRP at the time was $1,450. It was the first production pistol designed and built for IPSC-USPSA/practical pistol competition. Practical shooting had been growing rapidly through the '80s, but it still seemed like a big deal for a factory to build a pistol specifically for the sport.

At the time there were no divisions (e.g. Limited, Revolver, Single Stack) and all pistols competed together. Back then the only way to get a race-ready pistol from a factory was from the S&W Performance Center or Springfield Custom Shop. Otherwise it was a case of buying a 1911-style pistol and sending it to a custom pistolsmith.

The M87 came along at a time when IPSC/USPSA equipment rules were changing and competition handguns were rapidly evolving. It was handicapped because it was "minor caliber", and not readily adaptable to use optics which were just coming in. The development of major-caliber pistols with optics (ParaOrdnance, STI/SVI, CZ-75 and clones) in the early '90s left the M87 not really competitive for top-level competition.

It's an interesting pistol, very well made. As AustinTX has noted the action is similar to the Beretta 92. Notice how thick and heavy the steel of the M87 slide is in the locking block area. It was obviously made to be both strong and durable. The M87 was based on the M82 which at the time (and maybe still) was the Spanish army issue pistol.

I had a cover story on the M87 in the June 1991 issue of GUNS Magazine, with photos by Ichiro Nagata. Along with a couple of other shooters, we had around 2,000 rounds through it with no malfunctions and reasonably good (2 1/2"/25 yards) accuracy. Wish now I had bought it instead of returning it. It's an interesting artifact from the IPSC/USPSA equipment race era, and a quality pistol in its own right.

On the pistol I tested the slide safety only locked the firing pin. The decocker function had been deactivated.

zombieslayer · May 25, 2011, 10:02 AM

I didn't get any teen webcams. Just a nice lookin Llama.

Stonefly_Soldier · May 25, 2011, 11:02 AM

sorry if anyone had any issues related to the image hosting... I didn't when I used it on my personal computer but when I tired it at work I just about had a heart attack due to the horrible cam that popped up.(things that I wish I could unsee 0.0)... I'll repost with photobucket tonight.

Stonefly_Soldier · May 25, 2011, 11:10 AM

Dave,
Didn't realize you were the one who wrote the article. I heard that there was one in the June 1991 issue of Guns magazine. So I tracked down the magazine and bought a copy a couple months ago. It was nice to get an actual review of the 87. I bought this thanks to your advice!

Dave Anderson · May 25, 2011, 11:40 AM

"I bought this thanks to your advice!"

Dang, now I sure hope you like it!

Stonefly_Soldier · May 25, 2011, 03:39 PM

I'm sold... just put up some clays out at 15 yards and was making quick work of them... operated flawlessly for the first 35 rounds that i've put through... now we'll see what it does at the range... I'm sure llama is much more accurate than I am

Stonefly_Soldier · May 25, 2011, 10:02 PM

Heres a pic of the Llama next to Dave's cover article.

Morgo · May 26, 2011, 07:13 AM

Very nice, congrats!

Sevens · May 26, 2011, 07:57 AM

I could very much see me wanting one of these... four months ago.

I filled the niche for "great shooting, decent trigger, accurate 9mm pistol" with a Tanfoglio Witness Elite Match and so far, I love it.

Still, for the right price, I'd give a Llama M87 a home. Sounds like you found a good one! Very cool picture next to the magazine cover. (and no, I don't want to see any webcams of teenage llamas...

)

Tactical Jackalope · May 26, 2011, 12:53 PM

Now I want one -____-

9mm · May 26, 2011, 01:03 PM

Off topic, how is 22lr autos a dying bread?

Nice gun!

How does that bore light work for you? mine has problems, you gotta press hard on it and sometimes it doesn't work.

Don Glock · May 26, 2011, 01:17 PM

there's a llama competition model?

Stonefly_Soldier · May 26, 2011, 08:55 PM

Everyone is amazed when they see it that it has llama stamped on the side... The pawn shop guys scoffed at me when I was making the rounds this morning. Then they pulled the trigger and all of their faces changed. It was priceless to see their reactions.
It functioned perfectly, i now have 450 rounds through it between my friend, my fiance and I. It hasn't hung up once (funny thing is the Glock 22 was choking on WWB today)
It also shoots very well, I had 8 targets at various heights and ranges from 20ft-60ft and I was able to get them all on the first magazine of the day. I'm not the best marksman in the world so I felt really good about it. I'd only had a couple mags through it yesterday.
Beretta 92 mags do fit perfectly so I will be ordering from CDNN tonight.
Recoil was incredibly manageable(I'm used to 40 and 45 in lighter frames). I do feel that the compensator makes a difference just not a huge difference. I'd love to shoot this side by side with the model 82 which is the service model.
The trigger is very light and crisp but I haven't used a trigger gauge yet to check it's pull weight.
I got to checking the book value today and found that one in 95% is worth about $950 retail (they'll sell for 600 if you find them on gunbroker).
One of my eventual plans is to make custom grips and a sight mount for a red dot, but that'll be a project for later with lots of engineering in the meantime.
The bore light works ok, nothing special but it was 4 bucks and i needed a spare after someone pilfered my good one. The plastic locking bit will hold the light on, which does help.

AustinTX · May 26, 2011, 09:08 PM

Many will scoff at the gun's Llama provenance, but I've read several times over the years that these particular Llama guns (and maybe also the M82) were built to a high standard of quality.

Not trying to be pushy, StoneflySoldier, but do you think you might be able to give us a few shots of the interior of the frame and slide as well as a pic of the barrel after disassembly when you get a minute?

Stonefly_Soldier · May 26, 2011, 09:13 PM

No problem, Ill do the internals tonight when I get home. It seems really sturdy though.

Stonefly_Soldier · May 27, 2011, 05:46 PM

The pics as promised,

Stonefly_Soldier · May 27, 2011, 05:48 PM

a few more for fun

Stonefly_Soldier · May 27, 2011, 06:12 PM

AustinTX · May 27, 2011, 09:33 PM

Wow! Thanks! Very 92ish.

Stonefly_Soldier · May 28, 2011, 01:36 AM

yep, extremely similar. I think its a very well designed pistol compared to the 1911 clones they made. Don't quote me on it, but I've heard that Beretta had a part in the creation of the 87. I haven't found a reliable source on it yet. I still want to track down an original box and secondary recoil spring as well as the flyers and other documentation.

May 25, 2011, 01:24 AM	#1
Stonefly_Soldier Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Colton, WA Posts: 168	Just picked up a beauty... ... I'll tell everyone about it once somebody identifies it. Edit... Removed pic due to issues with the hosting service (will use photobucket next time) Last edited by Stonefly_Soldier; May 25, 2011 at 03:51 PM.

May 25, 2011, 01:55 AM	#2
Dave Anderson Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2011 Posts: 313	Llama M87 9mm competition model. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/DavesGunVideos/videos

May 25, 2011, 02:03 AM	#3
Stonefly_Soldier Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Colton, WA Posts: 168	Dead on... I've been tinkering with it since I picked it up this afternoon and it feels solid. Got it for 475 and tax. I'll do a formal range report on Thursday when I get some range time. (will repost pics with photobucket) Last edited by Stonefly_Soldier; May 25, 2011 at 03:52 PM.

May 25, 2011, 09:59 AM	#6
Dave Anderson Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2011 Posts: 313	The M87 was imported to the U.S. from 1989-1993. MSRP at the time was $1,450. It was the first production pistol designed and built for IPSC-USPSA/practical pistol competition. Practical shooting had been growing rapidly through the '80s, but it still seemed like a big deal for a factory to build a pistol specifically for the sport. At the time there were no divisions (e.g. Limited, Revolver, Single Stack) and all pistols competed together. Back then the only way to get a race-ready pistol from a factory was from the S&W Performance Center or Springfield Custom Shop. Otherwise it was a case of buying a 1911-style pistol and sending it to a custom pistolsmith. The M87 came along at a time when IPSC/USPSA equipment rules were changing and competition handguns were rapidly evolving. It was handicapped because it was "minor caliber", and not readily adaptable to use optics which were just coming in. The development of major-caliber pistols with optics (ParaOrdnance, STI/SVI, CZ-75 and clones) in the early '90s left the M87 not really competitive for top-level competition. It's an interesting pistol, very well made. As AustinTX has noted the action is similar to the Beretta 92. Notice how thick and heavy the steel of the M87 slide is in the locking block area. It was obviously made to be both strong and durable. The M87 was based on the M82 which at the time (and maybe still) was the Spanish army issue pistol. I had a cover story on the M87 in the June 1991 issue of GUNS Magazine, with photos by Ichiro Nagata. Along with a couple of other shooters, we had around 2,000 rounds through it with no malfunctions and reasonably good (2 1/2"/25 yards) accuracy. Wish now I had bought it instead of returning it. It's an interesting artifact from the IPSC/USPSA equipment race era, and a quality pistol in its own right. On the pistol I tested the slide safety only locked the firing pin. The decocker function had been deactivated. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/DavesGunVideos/videos Last edited by Dave Anderson; May 25, 2011 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Additional information

May 25, 2011, 10:02 AM	#7
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	I didn't get any teen webcams. Just a nice lookin Llama. __________________ "An angry prophet, denouncing the hypocrisies of our time"

May 25, 2011, 02:33 AM	#4
AustinTX Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2010 Posts: 2,145	Interesting guns. I never have been able to shoot one or even inspect the M82 or M87 on the inside. It would be nice to see some pictures of the inside of the frame and slide, if you get a chance. It's obviously Beretta 92ish in appearance in several respects. Even though it has a closed slide, I believe it still uses the P38/92-style falling locking block system, if memory serves. That dual safety set-up on the M87 is definitely unusual. Is the slide lever only a decocker? Congrats on your new addition. Sounds like you got it at a nice price, too. Looking forward to your range report.

May 25, 2011, 09:18 AM	#5
scottl Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2007 Location: Morehead,Ky Posts: 752	Stonefly, Did you know your imagehost pops up some young teen webcam page? You might want to switch to Photobucket.

May 25, 2011, 11:02 AM	#8
Stonefly_Soldier Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Colton, WA Posts: 168	sorry if anyone had any issues related to the image hosting... I didn't when I used it on my personal computer but when I tired it at work I just about had a heart attack due to the horrible cam that popped up.(things that I wish I could unsee 0.0)... I'll repost with photobucket tonight.

May 25, 2011, 11:10 AM	#9
Stonefly_Soldier Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Colton, WA Posts: 168	Dave, Didn't realize you were the one who wrote the article. I heard that there was one in the June 1991 issue of Guns magazine. So I tracked down the magazine and bought a copy a couple months ago. It was nice to get an actual review of the 87. I bought this thanks to your advice!

May 25, 2011, 11:40 AM	#10
Dave Anderson Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2011 Posts: 313	"I bought this thanks to your advice!" Dang, now I sure hope you like it! __________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/DavesGunVideos/videos

May 25, 2011, 03:39 PM	#11
Stonefly_Soldier Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Colton, WA Posts: 168	I'm sold... just put up some clays out at 15 yards and was making quick work of them... operated flawlessly for the first 35 rounds that i've put through... now we'll see what it does at the range... I'm sure llama is much more accurate than I am

May 25, 2011, 10:02 PM	#12
Stonefly_Soldier Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Colton, WA Posts: 168	Heres a pic of the Llama next to Dave's cover article.

May 26, 2011, 07:13 AM	#13
Morgo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 471	Very nice, congrats!

May 26, 2011, 07:57 AM	#14
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,755	I could very much see me wanting one of these... four months ago. I filled the niche for "great shooting, decent trigger, accurate 9mm pistol" with a Tanfoglio Witness Elite Match and so far, I love it. Still, for the right price, I'd give a Llama M87 a home. Sounds like you found a good one! Very cool picture next to the magazine cover. (and no, I don't want to see any webcams of teenage llamas... ) __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

May 26, 2011, 12:53 PM	#15
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	Now I want one -____-

May 26, 2011, 01:03 PM	#16
9mm Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2011 Location: Land of the Free Posts: 2,834	Off topic, how is 22lr autos a dying bread? Nice gun! How does that bore light work for you? mine has problems, you gotta press hard on it and sometimes it doesn't work.

May 26, 2011, 01:17 PM	#17
Don Glock Junior member Join Date: September 16, 2010 Posts: 1,141	there's a llama competition model?

May 26, 2011, 08:55 PM	#18
Stonefly_Soldier Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Colton, WA Posts: 168	Everyone is amazed when they see it that it has llama stamped on the side... The pawn shop guys scoffed at me when I was making the rounds this morning. Then they pulled the trigger and all of their faces changed. It was priceless to see their reactions. It functioned perfectly, i now have 450 rounds through it between my friend, my fiance and I. It hasn't hung up once (funny thing is the Glock 22 was choking on WWB today) It also shoots very well, I had 8 targets at various heights and ranges from 20ft-60ft and I was able to get them all on the first magazine of the day. I'm not the best marksman in the world so I felt really good about it. I'd only had a couple mags through it yesterday. Beretta 92 mags do fit perfectly so I will be ordering from CDNN tonight. Recoil was incredibly manageable(I'm used to 40 and 45 in lighter frames). I do feel that the compensator makes a difference just not a huge difference. I'd love to shoot this side by side with the model 82 which is the service model. The trigger is very light and crisp but I haven't used a trigger gauge yet to check it's pull weight. I got to checking the book value today and found that one in 95% is worth about $950 retail (they'll sell for 600 if you find them on gunbroker). One of my eventual plans is to make custom grips and a sight mount for a red dot, but that'll be a project for later with lots of engineering in the meantime. The bore light works ok, nothing special but it was 4 bucks and i needed a spare after someone pilfered my good one. The plastic locking bit will hold the light on, which does help.

May 26, 2011, 09:08 PM	#19
AustinTX Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2010 Posts: 2,145	Many will scoff at the gun's Llama provenance, but I've read several times over the years that these particular Llama guns (and maybe also the M82) were built to a high standard of quality. Not trying to be pushy, StoneflySoldier, but do you think you might be able to give us a few shots of the interior of the frame and slide as well as a pic of the barrel after disassembly when you get a minute?

May 26, 2011, 09:13 PM	#20
Stonefly_Soldier Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Colton, WA Posts: 168	No problem, Ill do the internals tonight when I get home. It seems really sturdy though.

May 27, 2011, 05:46 PM	#21
Stonefly_Soldier Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Colton, WA Posts: 168	The pics as promised,

May 27, 2011, 05:48 PM	#22
Stonefly_Soldier Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Colton, WA Posts: 168	a few more for fun

May 27, 2011, 06:12 PM	#23
Stonefly_Soldier Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Colton, WA Posts: 168

May 27, 2011, 09:33 PM	#24
AustinTX Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2010 Posts: 2,145	Wow! Thanks! Very 92ish.

May 28, 2011, 01:36 AM	#25
Stonefly_Soldier Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Colton, WA Posts: 168	yep, extremely similar. I think its a very well designed pistol compared to the 1911 clones they made. Don't quote me on it, but I've heard that Beretta had a part in the creation of the 87. I haven't found a reliable source on it yet. I still want to track down an original box and secondary recoil spring as well as the flyers and other documentation.

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