Colt SAA Gate Catch a high wear item?

[ghengiskhan]

I have a first generation Colt SAA that has poor lock up, if you wiggle the cylinder with the hammer in full cock, you can usually get the cylinder to unlock and rotate to the next chamber.

So would replacing the gate catch mitigate this issue? Or, because the grooves (on the cylinder that contact the gate catch) are fairly shallow should I look into a new cylinder?



It seems strange to me that these grooves would be so worn as to not properly engage the gate catch. Then again, this Colt is well over 100 years old.

Thoughts?

[Snyper]

if you wiggle the cylinder with the hammer in full cock, you can usually get the cylinder to unlock and rotate to the next chamber.

Stop wiggling the cylinder and there will be no problem

It's operator error

[Hawg]

Probably either a weak or loose bolt spring or a worn bolt.

[45 Dragoon]

Hawgie is right. Could even be that the spring is cracked and working just enough to do what it's doing.
Don't shoot it in this condition! Get it fixed!
BTW, the part is called a "bolt" and it locks the cylinder by dropping in one of six "locking notches". ( took me a little bit just to understand what you were talking about!!) You need to take care of the old gal!!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[James K]

The loading gate on a SAA is held open or closed by a spring loaded plunger; it plays no role in the gun's operation except to allow reloading. (Now the DAA is a different story!)

Jim

[ghengiskhan]

Heh, thanks, Dragoon and Hawg. I guess I didn't have my terminology quite right which makes for a confusing question and description of the problem.

JamesK, looks like I misnamed the part... woops!

I was going to order a new 1st Gen Bolt and Hand.... before I do, are there companies one should avoid or try to ensure purchasing from for best 'quality?' Lastly, I assume in order to fit these parts, I should invest in some jewelers files?

[4V50 Gary]

Sounds like the bolt is worn. If you replace it, keep the old one.

[denster]

What would be best is to invest in a gunsmith's services.
With all due respect a 1st gen Colt SAA has some significant collector's value and from your first post it appears like you may not have the familiarity or skill to asses the problem correctly and correct it.
Just a suggestion it is your gun.

[45 Dragoon]

I'm thinking if it's a spring, you can replace it yourself. If it's a bolt, it needs fitting. What you have described sounds like a spring prob.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[Hawg]

The screws are already a little buggered so if you decide to do it yourself you need to use straight side hollow ground screwdrivers instead of ordinary screwdrivers. That's why the screws are buggered now.

[4V50 Gary]

and if the cylinder is moving, it's the bolt that has worn. I highly advise against doing it yourself. Find someone who serves the Cowboy Action Shooting community.

[Hawg]

and if the cylinder is moving, it's the bolt that has worn.

Not if its a weak or loose spring that won't hold the bolt in the notches.

[ghengiskhan]

Originally Posted by 4V50 Gary

Sounds like the bolt is worn. If you replace it, keep the old one.

Most certainly, while not a hoarder, I'd be sure to keep it.

Originally Posted by denster

What would be best is to invest in a gunsmith's services.
With all due respect a 1st gen Colt SAA has some significant collector's value and from your first post it appears like you may not have the familiarity or skill to asses the problem correctly and correct it.
Just a suggestion it is your gun.

Familiarity, definitely not. Skill, that one's a toss up. Only issue there is finding a qualified gun smith where I live.

Originally Posted by 45 Dragoon

I'm thinking if it's a spring, you can replace it yourself. If it's a bolt, it needs fitting. What you have described sounds like a spring prob.

What would be the correct name of this spring? I'm also thinking a spring is more likely the problem... even if the bolt is well over 100 years old. Springs obviously get worn out with repeated use, compression and tension.

Originally Posted by Hawg

The screws are already a little buggered so if you decide to do it yourself you need to use straight side hollow ground screwdrivers instead of ordinary screwdrivers. That's why the screws are buggered now.

I have a set of straight sided bits I'll be sure to use if I decide to do it myself.

[Hawg]

What would be the correct name of this spring?

Bolt/trigger spring. Its a flat spring with two legs held in with a single screw and located right under the trigger guard. One leg works the bolt and the other the trigger.

[ghengiskhan]

Originally Posted by Hawg

Bolt/trigger spring. Its a flat spring with two legs held in with a single screw and located right under the trigger guard. One leg works the bolt and the other the trigger.

Thanks! Looks like replacing the spring will be a breeze. I'll order one and report back if that rectifies my issue.

[denster]

Since you seem fixed on doing it yourself you might want to consider reading a couple of articles on dis-assembly of a Colt SAA and watch a youtube video or two. It is not a complex chore although if you have never done it before it will be far from a breeze. This is particularly true since this is an older firearm with a good possibility that one or more screws may be frozen in place. Do you know how to overcome that problem without twisting off a screw head?

Also it is easy enough to check if this is a bolt/trigger spring issue without taking the gun apart. Just remove the cylinder and with the hammer down hold the gun with the trigger guard up. With your finger push up on the bolt. If there is free movement before feeling spring resistance or you feel very weak spring resistance from the start you have a spring problem. If you feel a firm spring resistance from the start you do not have a spring problem.

While I agree with 45Dragoon that it likely is a bolt/trigger spring problem it could also be a slight peening of the cylinder notches. Also someone, less than talented, may have tried to reshape the bolt head sometime in the past. I think it would be best to have a good idea of the problem prior to ordering parts.

Here is a link to a you tube vid. This guy is a bit of a clutz but has the sequence right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQTN8SUDbH8

[44 Dave]

You don't have anything to loose getting a trigger/bolt spring. Loosen all 3 back strap screws, as there can be a slight amount of side pressure on the fit. then loosen the main spring, after that the 3 screws that hold the trigger guard on. That gets you to the screw that holds the t/b spring.
This will get you to the point of knowing what is wrong.
I agree a youtube video or 2 first will help, any Colt single action has the same set up.
The truth is this spring should be "adjusted" by a Colt knowledgeable smith, but you can get by just dropping one in.
This will get it shooting, but if you want to use it is often as it should be it would be a very good idea to have some one go through it.
Also note that is an early frame, black powder, shoot "cowboy loads" in it.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Curious, what is the Serial Number? I can look it up and tell you how old it is. You can substitute Xs for the last two digits to keep it from being too personal.

The cylinder shows a lot of wear. There is also some peening of the cylinder locking notches. A new spring may or may not solve your problem. That spring and the hand spring are the two most common failures on a Colt type action. In this photo, the broken spring at the top is the spring in question. A very common break. Sometimes the spring develops a hairline crack across one of the legs and the break is not always obvious. In that case, the spring feels weak.



As stated, you can remove the cylinder and see if the bolt pops up. It should pop up briskly with authority. If it is sluggish, the spring probably needs replacing. Any other repairs should be left to a qualified gunsmith.

You can see the slots on your screws are already buggered up a bit. That is from poorly fitting screw drivers. Do not use standard hardware store screwdrivers on a firearm, the tapered shape tends to rise up out of the slot and cause the damage you see. You should really use a set of quality hollow ground screwdrivers on most guns.

P.S. If the gun was made before 1900, it should not be fired with Smokeless powder. That's why I am curious about the SN.

[bedbugbilly]

Good advice already given . .

And I'm assuming that every time you cock that Colt, such as half-cock, you always go to full cock before lowering the hammer?

[45 Dragoon]

Well, now we are talking about something else. I ALWAYS keep all mine loaded with six ( 5 in my '60 five shooter) so they all have their hammers down between chambers (all my O.Ts have Kirst gated conversions). Even my Remie with an R&D six shot cyl. has a notch (that I put in) that the hammer rests in. If your S.A. won't cycle from "hammer down between chambers", it needs fixin.
I know all about the " scratch" and mine don't have one but, that is the saftey they were designed with.
Not pickin on ya bedbug, just making some things clear before this takes off !! Lol!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Also, my El Patron Comp. keeps 6 in but has a hammer block system that I like very much. But, I can lower the hammer down and the f.p. will rest between the rims of two .45 Colt rounds or .45 ACP.

[Hawg]

The thing about an unloaded SAA is with the hammer down between chambers the bolt is against the cylinder wall and the cylinder can turn until it locks leaving a scratch. I've seen people let the hammer down from half cock and then deliberately turn the cylinder until it locked. Their guns had a very noticeable turn line.

[bedbugbilly]

45 Dragoon - no offense taken!

I'm not referring to positioning the hammer between cylinders for safety. I'm talking about what Hawg describes.

When I was taught to shoot SAA some 50+ years ago, it was drilled into my head that on a Colt SA, if you pull the hammer back to any position other than full cock, before you release and lower the hammer down, you take it to full cock so that the cylinder and bolt line up, otherwise, the bolt drags on the cylinder and worst case scenario, booger up the cylinder notches over time which will throw the timing off.

However many chambers a person chooses to load is their business. I will often load all six on my C & B revolvers if I'm shooting at a range. For carrying in the field, I don't - I load five and rest on an empty - but that is me and my preference. On my SAA clones, such as my Uberti Bisley - if i am carrying it, I still load 5 and rest on an empty chamber - that's because it is designed as the originals with a hammer spur pin for a firing pin and if I lower it down, regardless of if it is put in to a "safety notch" (as in first click back), the pin is lined up with a primer. But again, that's me and my preference. Even on my New Vaquero, which has a transfer bar, I still load 5 - again, personal preference. The only thing I do carry with a full cylinder are my CCW revolvers - which are DA with transfer bars and are designed to be carried that way. But of course they are in a thumbreak holster which covers the hammer completely as well. Just the habits I have gotten in to as that was the way I was taught how to do it.

Another thing that was drilled in to me was that if you load 5 (or 6), when you fire your revolver you count the rounds you fire. . . . and even though you've fired the number you've loaded, you ALWAYS check your revolver to make sure all rounds are fired - easily done on a cartridge handgun by checking the primers for firing pin marks. It boggles my mind when I am at a range next to a person shooting revolver and as they go through a cylinder full, I hear "click" - because they don't count. I even watched a guy shooting a S & W M & P one day at a range empty his pistol (I heard the telltale "click") and then he actually turned the muzzle of the revolver up towards his head so he could look in the end of the cylinder to see if all the bullets were gone. But sometimes, "you can't fix stupid". :roll eyes:

As far as the OP's problem . . . I'd want it fixed as well and as mentioned, it's probably a worn or weak bolt spring or bolt. Either way, you want that cylinder locked up reasonably tight and in time to avoid any problems with the chamber and bore not being properly aligned when that bullet takes flight.