Inherited Remington M1911A1, Walther P38 AC43, and Colt Woodsman. Help!

[Bereabuck]

My father left me with many guns, including these three along with a S&W K 32 long and Colt Police Positive Special... Which I will post in the appropriate forum.

I had the three shown below appraised and I want to verify I have good information. I appreciate any help you can offer about the guns' values, history, etc.

I can post any other needed photos. Thanks for your expert opinions.

[Jim Watson]

The Woodsman and P38 look good.
I won't second guess the valuations except to say an appraisal not backed by a cash offer is not worth much except for trades and division of inheritance.

The RR looks ok except for the rubber grips, but very close clear pictures would be needed to tell if the rest was authentic and original.
The Gold Cup slide is worth a bit, the barrel might be worth a little or a lot.

[Bereabuck]

Wow, Jim. You are all over this. Thanks for your replies. What close ups of the RR can I post to help authenticate? Too, I'm unfamiliar with Gold Cup slide? It is a Colt 22 conversion.

[Jim Watson]

I wondered if it might not be a .22 conversion, but did not see the floating chamber barrel. The loose barrel beside it is a regular .45.

Pictures for assessment should be close, clear and show ALL markings.
Even the ones on the barrel breech and/or link lug.

[polyphemus]

Any modifications to the Rand will significantly reduce its collector's value,
those guys are very fussy and even if everything else is military condition
original they are bound to turn their noses,be prepared for a disappointment.

[smax]

Don't put anything but standard velocity ammunition through that Woodsman. HV ammo's going to hurt it.

[PawPaw]

I can understand the desire to know as much about your father's guns as possible. I found guns after my father's death that I didn't know he owned. I'd love to know the family history behind those items.

In my case, the valuation was interesting, but not indicative. They were priceless, because they were my father's guns. However, I only kept one, a small Spanish Ruby pistol that is nearly worthless in the market, but is valuable to me because I know the personal history of that gun. The other guns my father left me were passed along to my sons who each has one of their grandfather's guns.

[+1k ammo]

My father left a gun room full. Im still trying to list them all.
I have added my guns to his and givinvg some to my siblings as I know and shot the most with him. He also showed me how to run his dillon.
Anyway, the ones that were important im fixing up and some of the crappy ones im selling/trading.
just sent in 2 glocks for frame upgrades for 100.00 each but they look nice.

I have worthless revolver that was my gpas. Thankfully he told me about it before he passed. I will never sell that and will hand down to my kids or neice. And nephews.

so if it was important too him , keep it. Although my dad had so many i am trading duplicates. Several .22 lever and training rifles that are similar. There is just no room. Spilling out of two full safes and huge rifle rack. Looks like cabellas!
good luck.

[PetahW]

Originally Posted by smax

Don't put anything but standard velocity ammunition through that Woodsman. HV ammo's going to hurt it.

That Colt's DOM is 1960, and was built to be shot with HS/HV ammo, if desired.


.

[RickB]

I wondered if it might not be a .22 conversion, but did not see the floating chamber barrel. The loose barrel beside it is a regular .45.

Yeah, looks like .22-.45 Conversion slide, without the internals. They didn't change much in appearance from the mid-'50s through the '70s, so can't estimate the vintage.

[Pilot]

If that Colt slide is a .22 conversion, wouldn't it say "Ace" on it or at least the identification of .22 caliber?

[RickB]

Ace is a complete pistol. Conversion Unit slides are rollmarked "Conversion Unit".
I don't know why people say "Ace Conversion" and the like, but there you go. What's sort of strange, is that the unit to convert a .45 to .22 is called a ".22-.45 Conversion Unit", while the rare 1930s units that convert an Ace to .45 are called ".45-.22 Conversion Unit".

[In memory of dad]

I in same boat u in! Father just died and left me a bunch of handguns and enough ammo and cleaning gear to support a third world country! Make sure you hold on to them and cherish them! Only memory we got of are fathers and the history behind the weapon! Why my name is on here! He's gone and now I found people I can keep the gun talk conversation up with on here

[Bereabuck]

Hope these help...



The .22 conversion is complete.

[Jim Watson]

That looks like an excellent 1944 type 3 Remington Rand, lacking only the brown plastic Keyes grips. If checked out in all respects by a collector, it would be worth a good bit of money.
The .22 conversion is pretty valuable, too.

[+1k ammo]

Then what would the value be to the OP?

I have a nice custom shop 1911 Sprinfield Armory (not for sale) from my Dad and it was hard to even get a value on it and this was not very old.

Would yours be in the 1k or 2k range? Has some scratches but looks in ok condition.

-----also, "in memory of Dad" ---yes it is good to consult with fellow gun people. My wife will not talk for 2 seconds about any type of gun except to say I should get rid of them! She used to shoot trap, but now has changed her mind with our two young kids around.

[Jim Watson]

I don't know what it is worth to the OP, does he want an heirloom or money?
But looking at closed auctions on Gunbroker for what was actually paid, it looks like about a $1500 gun, if he found some proper grips. There are RRs at higher asking prices with no bids and at higher selling prices but in really superb condition or one of the less common variants.

The .22 conversion is probably worth $300-$400.

[Bereabuck]

I don't plan on selling the RR 1911. It's way too nice and meaningful to me.

It's really interesting to learn which guns y'all would pick.

I'm getting a good idea of what I would want.

[lockedcj7]

I bought a Remington Rand 1911A1 last summer for $1200 only the finish isn't nearly as nice as yours. I was told that I over paid and that it wasn't worth more than $800.

I tried to find one cheaper to see if I had actually overpaid and couldn't. I did find some slightly nicer ones for $1500 and up. Mostly waaaay up.

I still feel like I got a good deal and it's my favorite pistol by far. Correct Keyes grips are cheap and easy to find.

[Winchester_73]

For one, the ace kit, if complete, is worth more than $300. I was just in the market for one, and a friend of mine sold me a decent one for $350. I would say one without the box is worth a min of $350. That is of course for 1 magazine. Online they are rarely seen for under $400, and they can be sold online easily since the slide, barrel, magazine etc are not dealer transferable items. Only the receiver/frame is the legal "gun" and the rest are just parts.

I actually am into P38s and Woodsmans, believe it or not. The funny thing is, I'm more of a revolver guy, but these 2 semis are two of my personal favorites.

The Woodsman is specifically a 3rd generation target model. This was the last modification of the Woodsman series. The target model refers to its barrel length of 6in, vs the "sport" model which had a 4in barrel. Not to be confused with the "match target" which had a heavy, match grade barrel. 3rd series woodsmans were made from 1955 to 1977. The 3rd series had the heel mag release, with the post war 2nd generation lines. The 3rd series Woodsmans have a larger trigger guard than second series guns. 1st series guns have a completely different look to them.

As for the value, I would say $950 is high, but of course, that was more of an appraisal/insurance value than a "would sell for..." value. I would say $750 to $800, if truly in excellent condition. Despite its condition, it is one of the most common Woodsman variants.

The P38 is a "AC 43" aka Walther manufacture of 1943. "AC" was a secret code for Walther produced arms during WWII. Walther was also the principle P38 maker during WWII. There were 3 makers total, Walther - AC or 480, Spreewerke - CYQ or CVQ and Mauser - BYF or SVW. The AC43 guns are one of the more common P38s with supposedly 150k being produced that year, according to Jan Still, world renown Axis pistol collector and researcher. There were a few subvariations, such as a FN produced frame or a straight line "AC 43" rather than the stacked "AC" over "43" which yours is. My first P38 was actually a AC43. The magazine should be marked eagle/359 on spine and would have been marked "P.38v" on the left side, near the bottom, which began in Feb 1943, per one source. So its possible for it to be marked "P38" without the "v." This mag, for a AC43 P38, would NOT have had the serial number. Serial numbering of mags was discontinued in 1942 by Walther. Although in this case, the mag being WWII manufacture is key, and the correct Walther mag is common.

As for value, $600 is the higher end, but non-import matching P38s are going up up up! The serial number should be on the left side of frame, left side of slide, on barrel assembly (directly below barrel on front) and internally on the breech block.

As for the RR, it looks nice. It should have a "HS" marked barrel aka hi-standard. I'm not much of a 1911 guy, but the values given in this thread are fair. In the WWII 1911s, RRs are the least valuable, BUT still pretty valuable. I recommend the Poyer book on 1911s. There is a lot to know about them.