Fit to be Hog Tied!

Ideal Tool · December 9, 2010, 11:24 PM

Hello, I just heard a horror story about a "feral" hog. Two friends out deer hunting in MI. state game area spot a hog at least 500lb. In MI., if you have valid license..small game, deer, etc. you can take these animals year round. Just to be safe, they contact DNR officer. He says if seen

again..shoot. Next day they do & bag it. Had to use quad to drag out to their truck. As they were loading, local farmer shows up & claims that was his brood sow that had been missing for a few months, threatens to sue for damage. Local sheriff is called, he sides with farmer. Hunters forced to pay going rate/lb...$500.00!
Hunters try to go above local DNR, only to find that officer was transfered to another county! I thought I might like to try for one of these critters...now not so sure?

hogdogs · December 10, 2010, 01:04 AM

They should have fought thatin court!

In nearly every state, "feral" swine are considered to be "property of the land owner upon which they are currently located"...

State owns them on state lands...

Also, the farmer admits it has been out of his control for more than a few hours... And by claiming ownership, he opens himself to claims of damage to the state lands... EVERY BIT OF ROOTING CAN BE LAID ON HIM AND HIS ONE BROOD SOW!!!

Brent

Double Naught Spy · December 10, 2010, 03:34 AM

The local sheriff was wrong. Your buddy should have called the DNR guy again for clarification. Under Michigan law, a feral swine is defined as any pig free-ranging outside an enclosure.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...8_240652_7.pdf

dahermit · December 10, 2010, 09:40 AM

In response to "wild" hogs having escaped from game farms and have established a breeding population in Michigan, the DNR has encouraged the shooting of the hogs due to the damage they cause. However, the hogs that escaped were of the wild verity (Russian Boar?) not domestic hogs running wild. There is a visible difference. If I were to see a hog running loose, I would be sure to note the difference before shooting it.

Gbro · December 10, 2010, 10:01 AM

Not at all surprising that a Sheriff gets it wrong.
Very informative link DNS, and the US map with all county's was also very interesting. Had never seen one like that.

Those hunters should get there money back for certain if not more!

hogdogs · December 10, 2010, 10:44 AM

Dahermit... The intent may be towards russian blooded hogs but the truth is that there is a bunch of domestic blood runnin' loose all over the nation. michigan is just starting to see the damages from the hogs. And to add, feral domestic bloodlines only need a few generations (LITERALLY) to begin to have very different physical characteristics. Snouts lengthen, legs will get longer, ears change and of course the leanness that is developed to gain great speed and endurance...

If I take picture of a domestic breed from a few generations of feral stock and black it out... You would never assimilate it to any domestic swine you ever seen... And then take into account the cutters and whetters and the pigs ability to decide fight over flight when it feels that a better response to threat... They can and do have the ability to do great bodily harm to animals and humans alike!

Brent

Deerhunter · December 10, 2010, 11:23 AM

Kind of the same deal....there was a guy that had some kind of goat/ram on his property. They kept getting loose. Evidently he got tired of dealing with them and they basically were let loose. (This is in the Limerick area of PA outside of Philly). Anyway, those Rams are running around now and are considered shoot on sight. They are domestics or were. I have never seen one. My buddy has and another friend saw one in his taxidermist's shop mounted. From what I have heard about them they went "wild" several years ago now. So they were domestic but aren't any more. Again they are shoot on sight.

If I were those guys I would fight it.

Scorch · December 10, 2010, 01:05 PM

Feral, by definition, is a domestic animal that has gone wild.

Besides, "local sheriff" (deputy sheriffs, LEO) cannot establish culpability nor assess fines, that is the court's jurisdiction.

And if the DNR officer was "assigned to a different county", you pick up the phone and call the different county and talk to him again.

Too many holes in that story for my tastes.

Countertop · December 10, 2010, 01:54 PM

Not for nothing, but the value of a sow - especially an escaped one that you haven't been feeding for months - is far less than $500. At that point, you can't return her to your herd, she's basically nothing but a cull.

And how did he prove it? Did she have her ear tags in?

Farmer should have paid them.

dahermit · December 10, 2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Dahermit... The intent may be towards russian blooded hogs but the truth is that there is a bunch of domestic blood runnin' loose all over the nation. michigan is just starting to see the damages from the hogs. And to add, feral domestic bloodlines only need a few generations (LITERALLY) to begin to have very different physical characteristics. Snouts lengthen, legs will get longer, ears change and of course the leanness that is developed to gain great speed and endurance...

If I take picture of a domestic breed from a few generations of feral stock and black it out... You would never assimilate it to any domestic swine you ever seen... And then take into account the cutters and whetters and the pigs ability to decide fight over flight when it feels that a better response to threat... They can and do have the ability to do great bodily harm to animals and humans alike!

The feral hogs beginning to look like "wild" hogs is true. Nevertheless, the current problem in Michigan is a very new phenomenon. Michigan has not had a feral hog problem in the past. The current problem has been attributed to wild escapees from game farms (Ted Nugent's game farm was blamed at first, but he claimed that his inventory was accounted for.). The DNR has maintained that the problem hogs are indeed game farm in origin, not domestic feral hogs gone wild like in the more Southern states.

Cowboy_mo · December 10, 2010, 10:14 PM

Okay imo (and its worth every penney I'm paid

) this was a civil issue between the hunters and the farmer and the deputy should have walked away without offering an opinion. Had I been the hunters, my response would have been "sue me" because as others have indicated, the sow wasn't possibly worth $500, and the farmer is responsible to the state for all the damage it has done while "free ranging"....

In states without "free range" laws a livestock owner is responsible to keep their animals penned and/or under control at all times and are responsible for any damage caused by that animal while "out of control". For example, had a car hit the hog, the farmer would have been responsible for any damage the car owner suffered.

Now I really don't like lawyers or lawsuits but if these guys paid $500 for this hog, they should sue the farmer and the county sheriff's dept for sticking their nose into it.

Double Naught Spy · December 11, 2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Feral, by definition, is a domestic animal that has gone wild.

LOL, that is clear as mud. What are the characteristics that define being "wild"? Is "wild" determined by lack of confinement, behavior, biological changes, or what?

Are free range chickens feral?

I like Michigan's definition. It handles things quite well for their purposes. Any pig free-ranging out of its enclosure "feral" and hence can be treated as such. So the escaped sow was no longer in her enclosure and was ranging free. Whether it happened yesterday or last year doesn't matter.

hooligan1 · December 11, 2010, 04:39 PM

Did the old farmer a favor as far as I'm concerned.Probably won't have as much sleepless nights as he once did, cause when she left his land she wasn't lookin back!!!

Did he have any chickens???

thallub · December 11, 2010, 04:55 PM

The state of OK calls any hog running loose a "feral swine." "Feral swine" are fair game; no hunting license required. Three years ago i killed a huge American Landrace sow on one of our properties. That hog was a monster with 14 pig nursing stations. She had been wild long enough for the curl to leave her tail.

Not sure what that hog weighed. Field dressed, she pegged the 350 pound scale my neighbor has. That hog was good eating.

dahermit · December 12, 2010, 09:20 AM

It is not logical to compare free range chickens to feral hogs. Chickens will return to their hen house to roost each night.

hooligan1 · December 12, 2010, 09:24 AM

Dahermit, totally tongue-in-cheek,

Of course chickens come home to roost, but that old sow would have kept going, the only thing that keeps them still is farrowing, then its off to the races, looking for clean fresh dirt to ruin and crops to destroy!!!I never claimed to be even partially logical!!

December 9, 2010, 11:24 PM	#1
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Fit to be Hog Tied! Hello, I just heard a horror story about a "feral" hog. Two friends out deer hunting in MI. state game area spot a hog at least 500lb. In MI., if you have valid license..small game, deer, etc. you can take these animals year round. Just to be safe, they contact DNR officer. He says if seen again..shoot. Next day they do & bag it. Had to use quad to drag out to their truck. As they were loading, local farmer shows up & claims that was his brood sow that had been missing for a few months, threatens to sue for damage. Local sheriff is called, he sides with farmer. Hunters forced to pay going rate/lb...$500.00! Hunters try to go above local DNR, only to find that officer was transfered to another county! I thought I might like to try for one of these critters...now not so sure?

December 10, 2010, 03:34 AM	#3
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	The local sheriff was wrong. Your buddy should have called the DNR guy again for clarification. Under Michigan law, a feral swine is defined as any pig free-ranging outside an enclosure. http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...8_240652_7.pdf __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

December 10, 2010, 10:01 AM	#5
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	Not at all surprising that a Sheriff gets it wrong. Very informative link DNS, and the US map with all county's was also very interesting. Had never seen one like that. Those hunters should get there money back for certain if not more! __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

December 10, 2010, 11:23 AM	#7
Deerhunter Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 607	Kind of the same deal....there was a guy that had some kind of goat/ram on his property. They kept getting loose. Evidently he got tired of dealing with them and they basically were let loose. (This is in the Limerick area of PA outside of Philly). Anyway, those Rams are running around now and are considered shoot on sight. They are domestics or were. I have never seen one. My buddy has and another friend saw one in his taxidermist's shop mounted. From what I have heard about them they went "wild" several years ago now. So they were domestic but aren't any more. Again they are shoot on sight. If I were those guys I would fight it. __________________ My idea of fast food is a mallard. -Ted Nugent

December 10, 2010, 01:05 PM	#8
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Feral, by definition, is a domestic animal that has gone wild. Besides, "local sheriff" (deputy sheriffs, LEO) cannot establish culpability nor assess fines, that is the court's jurisdiction. And if the DNR officer was "assigned to a different county", you pick up the phone and call the different county and talk to him again. Too many holes in that story for my tastes. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

December 10, 2010, 01:04 AM	#2
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	They should have fought thatin court! In nearly every state, "feral" swine are considered to be "property of the land owner upon which they are currently located"... State owns them on state lands... Also, the farmer admits it has been out of his control for more than a few hours... And by claiming ownership, he opens himself to claims of damage to the state lands... EVERY BIT OF ROOTING CAN BE LAID ON HIM AND HIS ONE BROOD SOW!!! Brent

December 10, 2010, 09:40 AM	#4
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	In response to "wild" hogs having escaped from game farms and have established a breeding population in Michigan, the DNR has encouraged the shooting of the hogs due to the damage they cause. However, the hogs that escaped were of the *wild* verity (Russian Boar?) not domestic hogs running wild. There is a visible difference. If I were to see a hog running loose, I would be sure to note the difference before shooting it.

December 10, 2010, 10:44 AM	#6
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Dahermit... The intent may be towards russian blooded hogs but the truth is that there is a bunch of domestic blood runnin' loose all over the nation. michigan is just starting to see the damages from the hogs. And to add, feral domestic bloodlines only need a few generations (LITERALLY) to begin to have very different physical characteristics. Snouts lengthen, legs will get longer, ears change and of course the leanness that is developed to gain great speed and endurance... If I take picture of a domestic breed from a few generations of feral stock and black it out... You would never assimilate it to any domestic swine you ever seen... And then take into account the cutters and whetters and the pigs ability to decide fight over flight when it feels that a better response to threat... They can and do have the ability to do great bodily harm to animals and humans alike! Brent

December 10, 2010, 01:54 PM	#9
Countertop Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: At the diner Posts: 125	Not for nothing, but the value of a sow - especially an escaped one that you haven't been feeding for months - is far less than $500. At that point, you can't return her to your herd, she's basically nothing but a cull. And how did he prove it? Did she have her ear tags in? Farmer should have paid them.

December 10, 2010, 10:14 PM	#11
Cowboy_mo Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,039	Okay imo (and its worth every penney I'm paid ) this was a civil issue between the hunters and the farmer and the deputy should have walked away without offering an opinion. Had I been the hunters, my response would have been "sue me" because as others have indicated, the sow wasn't possibly worth $500, and the farmer is responsible to the state for all the damage it has done while "free ranging".... In states without "free range" laws a livestock owner is responsible to keep their animals penned and/or under control at all times and are responsible for any damage caused by that animal while "out of control". For example, had a car hit the hog, the farmer would have been responsible for any damage the car owner suffered. Now I really don't like lawyers or lawsuits but if these guys paid $500 for this hog, they should sue the farmer and the county sheriff's dept for sticking their nose into it.

December 11, 2010, 04:39 PM	#13
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	Did the old farmer a favor as far as I'm concerned.Probably won't have as much sleepless nights as he once did, cause when she left his land she wasn't lookin back!!!Did he have any chickens??? __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

December 11, 2010, 04:55 PM	#14
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	The state of OK calls any hog running loose a "feral swine." "Feral swine" are fair game; no hunting license required. Three years ago i killed a huge American Landrace sow on one of our properties. That hog was a monster with 14 pig nursing stations. She had been wild long enough for the curl to leave her tail. Not sure what that hog weighed. Field dressed, she pegged the 350 pound scale my neighbor has. That hog was good eating.

December 12, 2010, 09:20 AM	#15
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	It is not logical to compare free range chickens to feral hogs. Chickens will return to their hen house to roost each night.

December 12, 2010, 09:24 AM	#16
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	Dahermit, totally tongue-in-cheek, Of course chickens come home to roost, but that old sow would have kept going, the only thing that keeps them still is farrowing, then its off to the races, looking for clean fresh dirt to ruin and crops to destroy!!!I never claimed to be even partially logical!! __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.