practical purpose for .38 spl guns gone.... - Page 6

**Mike Irwin** · April 27, 2019, 02:34 PM

'I'm positive that Mr. Wright knows more about revolver history I ever will, but I've always thought, and many, many others think of the term .38/44 as referring to the more powerful Keith loads developed for the Smith N frame models as shown in their early catalogs. Even Colt advertised their Colt Official police as being able to handle the 38/44 loads. In those days this was similar to our present day "Ruger Only" loads.'

Except that Smith & Wesson never advertised their round as having been developed by Keith. Keith certainly wrote about the uploaded rounds he worked on, but his association with them didn't really become commonly known until well after World War II.

ThomasT · April 27, 2019, 06:02 PM

If 38 only guns were more available I would buy them. The 38 will do about all I want from a revolver. And I am not talking about snubbies. I am talking about 4"-6" barreled guns. But the only new made 38s I can afford come from Taurus. And they are good guns in most cases. S&W also offers new made 38 only guns but I can't justify $700+ plus for any new handgun. Not when the world is full of used ones for around half the price.

As for cleaning the carbon ring from shooting 38s in a 357 I stuff a wad of paper towel or cotton ball in that area of the chamber and soak it with WD-40 or the Walmart equivalent spray and leave it for a few hours or over night with the gun barrel down. That softens the fouling so it can be brushed out without any real heavy duty methods needed.

But I also don't let cleaning a gun get ahead of me either. They are cleaned when I get home if a box or more was fired or at least get a light spray and cleaned later. But they are not stored for weeks or months with a dirty chamber.

Dave T · April 28, 2019, 01:22 PM

Quote:

...showing a picture of an ammo box that the maker labeled ".45 Long Colt"

Now you've gone too far! (smiley face goes here)

Dave

JERRYS. · April 28, 2019, 03:41 PM

so after 6 pages, my statement seems to holds true for John Q citizen. the 38spl only guns are impractical for ccw, home defense..... but they are practical for manufacturers because they are cheaper to make.

Lohman446 · April 28, 2019, 03:49 PM

?? Your impressed by your own skills of debate

What is the purpose of building a more expensive, and often heavier firearm, than the cartridge most users will fire from it?

You ignoring cost, outside of the scandium guns weight, according to some accuracy when firing a 38 from a 357, disallowance where competition mandates .38, and various other points brought up

I suppose, if you disregard every counter premise given, you could argue your point was still as valid as when the six pages started.

USSR · April 28, 2019, 04:43 PM

Quote:

so after 6 pages, my statement seems to holds true for John Q citizen. the 38spl only guns are impractical for ccw, home defense..... but they are practical for manufacturers because they are cheaper to make.

Hmm, I can see you don't let a little thing like facts get in the way of your conclusions.

Don

Bob Wright · April 28, 2019, 04:51 PM

I reckon I'm too simplistic in my outlook ~ if you want a .38 Special, buy a .38 Special. If you want a .44 Special, buy a .44 Special. (Or have one built.)

I quit worryrin' about things like that over forty years ago.

Bob Wright

**44 AMP** · April 28, 2019, 09:55 PM

Quote:

so after 6 pages, my statement seems to holds true for John Q citizen. the 38spl only guns are impractical for ccw, home defense.....

Just how do you define "impractical"?? Because if, after reading 6 pages of this thread you get that .38Spl is "impractical for CCW, home defense..." then you define practical differently than I do.

JERRYS. · April 28, 2019, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Just how do you define "impractical"?? Because if, after reading 6 pages of this thread you get that .38Spl is "impractical for CCW, home defense..." then you define practical differently than I do.

the 38 special only gun is..... except for cost which now I see is a big factor for many because so few 357s are priced close to their 38 counterpart.

74A95 · April 28, 2019, 10:55 PM

A totally practical way to look at it is that people buy the gun they want because it's in the caliber they want.

If someone is looking for a 357 but doesn't want to pay very much, they make them. Many Taurus 357 revolvers cost less than a S&W 38 special. In fact, Taurus sells 38s and 357s at virtually the same price.

https://grabagun.com/taurus-856b2-mo...-revolver.html
https://grabagun.com/taurus-605-357mg-2-bl-fs-5rd.html

Maybe some people, jerrys, in your mind, feel they are 'forced' to buy something other than what they want. That doesn't compute. Certainly not to me. In my experience of buying guns for 40+ years, I've never felt like I bought something I didn't want. Have you?

The 38 Special is entirely practical and capable to do a lot all by itself. It's fine for self defense. It's fine for small game. It's fine for casual shooting. It's fine for super-accurate target shooting. Some folks don't feel the need for anything more powerful than that. Can't see why you might be imposing your way of thinking on everybody on the planet.

If there was no market for people to buy a mere 38 Special, manufacturers wouldn't make them. But they do. And people buy tons of them in snubby form just for self defense. That's why there are so many manufacturers that make them and in so many different models. That, in itself, contradicts what you believe. If you can't accept that, that's your problem.

JERRYS. · April 28, 2019, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

A totally practical way to look at it is that people buy the gun they want because it's in the caliber they want.

If someone is looking for a 357 but doesn't want to pay very much, they make them. Many Taurus 357 revolvers cost less than a S&W 38 special. In fact, Taurus sells 38s and 357s at virtually the same price.

https://grabagun.com/taurus-856b2-mo...-revolver.html
https://grabagun.com/taurus-605-357mg-2-bl-fs-5rd.html

Maybe some people, jerrys, in your mind, feel they are 'forced' to buy something other than what they want. That doesn't compute. Certainly not to me. In my experience of buying guns for 40+ years, I've never felt like I bought something I didn't want. Have you?

The 38 Special is entirely practical and capable to do a lot all by itself. It's fine for self defense. It's fine for small game. It's fine for casual shooting. It's fine for super-accurate target shooting. Some folks don't feel the need for anything more powerful than that. Can't see why you might be imposing your way of thinking on everybody on the planet.

If there was no market for people to buy a mere 38 Special, manufacturers wouldn't make them. But they do. And people buy tons of them in snubby form just for self defense. That's why there are so many manufacturers that make them and in so many different models. That, in itself, contradicts what you believe. If you can't accept that, that's your problem.

buy and shoot all the 38 special ammo you want. I never said differently. my question is why do so in a gun that can only shoot that round when you can get one that shoots both it and 357? this is along the lines of the .223 vs. the 5.56 in a way. can you find a currently manufactured .223 only chambered gun?

P Flados · April 28, 2019, 11:42 PM

When you say it is "just cost", you are missing the bigger picture.

Guns can be very cheap and guns can be very expensive. In the middle is a range of products where for a given caliber you tend to "get what you pay for".

I buy guns that have the right combination of cost, performance, durability and service reputation for the maker.

I had no problem buying a well made 38 Sp that I was confident would last a lifetime and that fit my cost point. The gun performs as expected and does what I want it to.

I considered paying a little more and getting a 357. I decided that my 357 choices would have been lower quality and/or questionable for durability. For my needs, I would have spent more and gotten a gun the does a worse job of meeting my standards.

74A95 · April 29, 2019, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JERRYS.

can you find a currently manufactured .223 only chambered gun?

Yup. Lots of them. Ruger, Remington, Browning, Savage, Weatherby, and more I'm sure.

JERRYS. · April 29, 2019, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

Yup. Lots of them. Ruger, Remington, Browning, Savage, Weatherby, and more I'm sure.

wow, I learned something new. I figured they stopped making .223 only guns in favor of the 5.56 or .223 wylde.

P-990 · April 29, 2019, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JERRYS.

wow, I learned something new. I figured they stopped making .223 only guns in favor of the 5.56 or .223 wylde.

Really? If you ever go looking for a 5.56mm-chambered bolt action rifle, it becomes clear fast that your choices are fairly limited.

The thing is, there are still plenty of practical reasons to buy a .38 Special only revolver versus a .357 Magnum chambered one. All we've learned in 6 pages is that those reasons don't apply to you. Which is OK, this is why manufacturers offer so many options.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

**44 AMP** · April 29, 2019, 11:59 AM

Quote:

.38Spl is "impractical for CCW, home defense..."

Quote:

the 38 special only gun is..... except for cost which now I see is a big factor for many because so few 357s are priced close to their 38 counterpart.

We are apparently having a failure to communicate. I believe you are using the word "impractical" when you mean "less practactial, or les versatile"

Do you think a .38 Spl, fired from a .357 chambered gun is impractical for CCW, home defense, …"??

Think carefully before answering, this is a test!

If you agree that the .38 Spl round is practical for …. then the .38 only guns MUST be practical, because they shoot a practical round.

.38 only guns may not be the MOST practical, for some folks, or they may be, it depends on your situation and preferences.

But if you accept that the round itself is a viable, practical round for a given situation, then the gun that shoots it, isn't Impractical, if it is within the usual sizes and types.

You could build an 8lb single shot target rifle in .38SPL, and most would consider it impractical for CCW or home defense. I would. But a .38 revolver, being impractical because its not a .357? I disagree.
Less versatile? Sure.
Less practical? perhaps
Impractical? no...

JERRYS. · April 29, 2019, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

We are apparently having a failure to communicate. I believe you are using the word "impractical" when you mean "less practactial, or les versatile"

Do you think a .38 Spl, fired from a .357 chambered gun is impractical for CCW, home defense, …"??

Think carefully before answering, this is a test!

If you agree that the .38 Spl round is practical for …. then the .38 only guns MUST be practical, because they shoot a practical round.

.38 only guns may not be the MOST practical, for some folks, or they may be, it depends on your situation and preferences.

But if you accept that the round itself is a viable, practical round for a given situation, then the gun that shoots it, isn't Impractical, if it is within the usual sizes and types.

You could build an 8lb single shot target rifle in .38SPL, and most would consider it impractical for CCW or home defense. I would. But a .38 revolver, being impractical because its not a .357? I disagree.
Less versatile? Sure.
Less practical? perhaps
Impractical? no...

ok, ya got my on the semantics of all this. I like the .38 special round. in a gun designed only for that round it is Less practical than one chambered in .357 magnum. better?

Carmady · April 29, 2019, 02:44 PM

Quote:

better?

Using red font would have been a nice touch.

Lohman446 · April 29, 2019, 02:57 PM

Quote:

ok, ya got my on the semantics of all this. I like the .38 special round. in a gun designed only for that round it is Less practical than one chambered in .357 magnum. better?

Still wrong.

The Ruger LCR in .38 comes in at 13.5 ounces. The Charter Arms Undercover Lite comes in at 12 ounces in .38.

The only 357 in this weight range is the expensive scandium revolvers complete with their bullet weight warnings of "not less than 120 grains".

So you are now arguing it is more practical to design and build a gun that is more expensive to manufacturer (and noticeably more expensive to buy), has bullet weight limitations, and has longevity concerns just so you can chamber a round that the majority of shooters will never actually use in the gun?

Or are you arguing that in guns often purchased for carry the difference in weight makes no practical difference?

**44 AMP** · April 29, 2019, 07:30 PM

Quote:

ok, ya got my on the semantics of all this. I like the .38 special round. in a gun designed only for that round it is Less practical than one chambered in .357 magnum. better?

I can agree with that.

OneFreeTexan · April 30, 2019, 08:30 PM

JERRYS........take a hint from an old timer......give it up.............this thread, that is..

TxFlyFish · April 30, 2019, 09:08 PM

357 snub is useless change my mind

**44 AMP** · April 30, 2019, 10:18 PM

Quote:

357 snub is useless change my mind

They make good paperweights!

not so good for boat anchors, though...

osbornk · May 1, 2019, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxFlyFish

357 snub is useless change my mind

I have one because:
1. I can brag about having a 357 Magnum.
2. I know that it will hold up well shooting lowly 38 Special even in +P.
3. It gets your attention when you shoot it and makes your friends want to shoot it only once (they won't shoot it at all if they have experienced one before).
4. It's more powerful even though that is not necessary.

Lohman446 · May 1, 2019, 09:19 AM

Quote:

I have one because:
1. I can brag about having a 357 Magnum.
2. I know that it will hold up well shooting lowly 38 Special even in +P.
3. It gets your attention when you shoot it and makes your friends want to shoot it only once (they won't shoot it at all if they have experienced one before).
4. It's more powerful even though that is not necessary.

I don't have to hear about shooting "just a .38". I can only ever shoot .38 out of it but none of my buddies question my masculinity over it

Apparently none of them even want to consider shooting .357 out of a 12 ounce revolver.

April 27, 2019, 02:34 PM	#126
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	'I'm positive that Mr. Wright knows more about revolver history I ever will, but I've always thought, and many, many others think of the term .38/44 as referring to the more powerful Keith loads developed for the Smith N frame models as shown in their early catalogs. Even Colt advertised their Colt Official police as being able to handle the 38/44 loads. In those days this was similar to our present day "Ruger Only" loads.' Except that Smith & Wesson never advertised their round as having been developed by Keith. Keith certainly wrote about the uploaded rounds he worked on, but his association with them didn't really become commonly known until well after World War II. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 28, 2019, 04:51 PM	#132
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	I reckon I'm too simplistic in my outlook ~ if you want a .38 Special, buy a .38 Special. If you want a .44 Special, buy a .44 Special. (Or have one built.) I quit worryrin' about things like that over forty years ago. Bob Wright __________________ Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.

April 28, 2019, 11:42 PM	#137
P Flados Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2017 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 243	When you say it is "just cost", you are missing the bigger picture. Guns can be very cheap and guns can be very expensive. In the middle is a range of products where for a given caliber you tend to "get what you pay for". I buy guns that have the right combination of cost, performance, durability and service reputation for the maker. I had no problem buying a well made 38 Sp that I was confident would last a lifetime and that fit my cost point. The gun performs as expected and does what I want it to. I considered paying a little more and getting a 357. I decided that my 357 choices would have been lower quality and/or questionable for durability. For my needs, I would have spent more and gotten a gun the does a worse job of meeting my standards. Last edited by P Flados; April 28, 2019 at 11:47 PM.

April 27, 2019, 06:02 PM	#127
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	If 38 only guns were more available I would buy them. The 38 will do about all I want from a revolver. And I am not talking about snubbies. I am talking about 4"-6" barreled guns. But the only new made 38s I can afford come from Taurus. And they are good guns in most cases. S&W also offers new made 38 only guns but I can't justify $700+ plus for any new handgun. Not when the world is full of used ones for around half the price. As for cleaning the carbon ring from shooting 38s in a 357 I stuff a wad of paper towel or cotton ball in that area of the chamber and soak it with WD-40 or the Walmart equivalent spray and leave it for a few hours or over night with the gun barrel down. That softens the fouling so it can be brushed out without any real heavy duty methods needed. But I also don't let cleaning a gun get ahead of me either. They are cleaned when I get home if a box or more was fired or at least get a light spray and cleaned later. But they are not stored for weeks or months with a dirty chamber.

April 28, 2019, 03:41 PM	#129
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	so after 6 pages, my statement seems to holds true for John Q citizen. the 38spl only guns are impractical for ccw, home defense..... but they are practical for manufacturers because they are cheaper to make.

April 28, 2019, 03:49 PM	#130
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	?? Your impressed by your own skills of debate What is the purpose of building a more expensive, and often heavier firearm, than the cartridge most users will fire from it? You ignoring cost, outside of the scandium guns weight, according to some accuracy when firing a 38 from a 357, disallowance where competition mandates .38, and various other points brought up I suppose, if you disregard every counter premise given, you could argue your point was still as valid as when the six pages started.

April 28, 2019, 10:55 PM	#135
74A95 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Posts: 1,564	A totally practical way to look at it is that people buy the gun they want because it's in the caliber they want. If someone is looking for a 357 but doesn't want to pay very much, they make them. Many Taurus 357 revolvers cost less than a S&W 38 special. In fact, Taurus sells 38s and 357s at virtually the same price. https://grabagun.com/taurus-856b2-mo...-revolver.html https://grabagun.com/taurus-605-357mg-2-bl-fs-5rd.html Maybe some people, jerrys, in your mind, feel they are 'forced' to buy something other than what they want. That doesn't compute. Certainly not to me. In my experience of buying guns for 40+ years, I've never felt like I bought something I didn't want. Have you? The 38 Special is entirely practical and capable to do a lot all by itself. It's fine for self defense. It's fine for small game. It's fine for casual shooting. It's fine for super-accurate target shooting. Some folks don't feel the need for anything more powerful than that. Can't see why you might be imposing your way of thinking on everybody on the planet. If there was no market for people to buy a mere 38 Special, manufacturers wouldn't make them. But they do. And people buy tons of them in snubby form just for self defense. That's why there are so many manufacturers that make them and in so many different models. That, in itself, contradicts what you believe. If you can't accept that, that's your problem.

April 30, 2019, 08:30 PM	#146
OneFreeTexan Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2002 Location: West, Texas Posts: 280	JERRYS........take a hint from an old timer......give it up.............this thread, that is..

April 30, 2019, 09:08 PM	#147
TxFlyFish Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Posts: 1,246	357 snub is useless change my mind