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Old June 30, 2020, 11:48 AM   #26
seanc
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If arm strength is an issue, is he going to have the grip strength to pull the trigger on a revolver? I'd suggest a 10/22 or equivalent. It's not what the SEALS use, but it's what he can handle.

Like others have said, bench shooting a 12ga is far from ideal, for anyone. I wish you luck in getting him to try anything after that.
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Old June 30, 2020, 01:33 PM   #27
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Don't give up the ship !!!

Wallabing

Quote:
Training my friend with a pump shotgun was a failure
If I may ask, was there a particular purpose of goal that you had in mind when you took him out. I know you mentioned and pump shotgun but for what purpose? I don't see a hunting application but I could be wrong. I suspect it's more of the HD application and if so, you should not have a problem switching gears. Point is, don't give up. I have a friend that has neck problems and got rid of all his long-guns. I also have another friend that just got a pace-maker and when the doctor asked told him that it was going onto the right side and it got switched to the other side. …

Be Safe !!!
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Old June 30, 2020, 02:31 PM   #28
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Ruger LCR .327. it has the best D/A trigger of any production line gun I've tried recently, holds six centerfire rounds and can be loaded with low, medium or high power rounds. he doesn't have to manipulate anything to get it into action, its either loaded and ready to go or it is not.
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Old June 30, 2020, 02:34 PM   #29
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A .410 shotgun is still pretty deadly for 'close encounters'.

One way to reduce recoil...Is to use the 'push pull' method with the shotgun --- By pushing out with the support hand, and pulling in with the firing hand.
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Old June 30, 2020, 03:06 PM   #30
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Perhaps OC spray might be more practical than a firearm?
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Old June 30, 2020, 03:15 PM   #31
FITASC
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The gun was for home defense. He is just physically weak from what I can see. He never told me anything about his disability or condition, I never asked him about it because it might seem rude and disrespectful.

He told me he bought the 870 because it was what the gunstore recommended to him for home defense.
Did he mention his strength issue to the clerk? If not, it is on him; if yes it is kn them. In any event, a 12 pump does not seem to be a good thing for him. I'll second the poster about a 9mm carbine. The High Point does get good reviews I chose the RugerPCC - short, reasonably light and reasonable recoil to go with it AND it takes Glock 33 round mags
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Old June 30, 2020, 03:39 PM   #32
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Another possibility . . . Ruger offers the LCP II in 22LR now.

Very easy to rack the slide. 10 +1 capacity.

Can be found for under $300.
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Old June 30, 2020, 07:00 PM   #33
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wallabing: your friend has some serious physical issues. He can not properly hold nor operate the slide on a pump 870. He is in his 50's and has serious strength issues. I am on the short side of 5'4", blown back, over weight, and in the same age bracket. I can still run my Mossy 835 Viking with no fear or problems with full house loads.

Time to find out his disabilties, his cans and can nots. Then and only then can we make a serious and credible recommendation. I have a friend that has Brittle Bone Syndrome and is confined to a wheel chair. He has a Bersa Thunder that he can use and learned to be proficient with. His wife also learned to use it. Both are at a disadvantage physically ( she is ADA Little People herself) but both can handle their business if need be.
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Old June 30, 2020, 07:06 PM   #34
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I take it teaching him how to use a blade is out of the question. (Kidding).
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Old June 30, 2020, 07:10 PM   #35
reynolds357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaranger View Post
I've seen that before, though usually with females. I have also seen elderly subjects who could not manage the slide on an auto pistol. Strength can be an issue, so can stock fit. Bamawife, for example, cannot manage a shotgun, she's quite petite.

One of my instructor details I was fortunate to pull was instructing Bureau of Prisons (BOP) employees. Everybody learns to shoot 3 different weapons in the BOP: carbine, handgun and shotgun) We saw a lot of females who were not corrections officers but administrative. The 12 gauge just beat them up. You don't mention how the Remington is chambered, 12 or 20? A 20 might help w/ recoil a bit. A high dollar recoil pad might help some, as would a butt stock of the correct length. Strength.......pushups!!!!!!

Options:
-A double gun would be lighter and perhaps easier to handle, though less weight would accentuate recoil......but a double 20 coach gun could be an option.

-Forget the shotgun.....sell it and obtain a pistol caliber carbine. The manual of arms for a lever carbine is a bit complicated to the newbie,but another option. A HiPoint auto carbine in 9mm is affordable, and the dang things run too.

My BOP detail showed me that the shotgun is not for everybody. If we could get the trainee to understand sights and trigger with the handgun, they invariably aced the carbine. One advantage is that the auto carbine operates somewhat like a handgun, with a box mag, safety, etc.

But the pump shotgun was just too much for some folks. A kicker, longer and heavy, and a manual of arms all its own.
A lot of qualifying days, I felt the need to use 3" 0buck for qualifying. It was always comical. We shot 3" slugs one day. That was a hoot.
The Chief wanted "managed recoil" ammo, but I made sure to place order when distributor was out of it.

Last edited by reynolds357; June 30, 2020 at 08:32 PM.
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Old June 30, 2020, 07:22 PM   #36
JERRYS.
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post #33 says it.

what exactly are his physical disorders? without knowing his own limitations you really can't help him make an informed decision.
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Old July 1, 2020, 06:35 PM   #37
langenc
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Copied from first page-----

I've seen that before, though usually with females. I have also seen elderly subjects who could not manage the slide on an auto pistol. Strength can be an issue, so can stock fit. Bamawife, for example, cannot manage a shotgun, she's quite petite.

I bet your friends stock is to long... and he has a worn out/torn shoulder.
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Old July 1, 2020, 08:34 PM   #38
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Not sure if this helps, but I have helped several people, females, and males learn to shoot..I don’t go macho on them,,, I start them with an old Ranger,,, it was a Savage , I think,,,22. It’s a semi,,,,,with a nice scope... It’s a heavy gun, so we always start from a rest....virtually no recoil at all, They are usually hitting the targets on the first magazine . And they all have said “wow, I didn’t know shooting a gun would be this easy and fun!” Every one of them has come back asking to shoot more,,,and then also they start asking about other guns..I always let them try low recoil guns... I have a few 22 pistols that are really nice, easy to sight, and accurate. Many times I have gotten a confirmed shooter.
Main thing I am saying is “don’t go macho on them”. Start them out with a light recoil gun and let them have fun.
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Old July 2, 2020, 08:02 PM   #39
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You might try a Rossi RS22 which is a lightweight 22 caliber semi auto rifle and its very cheap. Its' a pea shooter, for sure, but it could be right for your friend. It's a clone of the Mossberg 702 Plinkster.
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Old Yesterday, 08:48 AM   #40
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Please encourage him to go to gym. A mental and physical win... After 50, most of us start to deteriorate. I am 71 and am going too fast due to arthritis. Everything movable HURTS. Life has never been fair! If no gym option, add muzzle brake to 870 or trade 870 on an M4 clone. My wife cannot rack a slide back on a SA XD 45. It's even tough for me. So, I bought here a Glock, revolver and M4 type clone. She is now a happy camper. But, even with all these new firearms, she still has to train how to reload. So will your buddy!
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Old Yesterday, 09:26 AM   #41
FITASC
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Quote:
Bamawife, for example, cannot manage a shotgun, she's quite petite.
One woman I used to shoot with was 5' and in her late 60s and handled her 8# Kreighoff 12 gauge easily enough - because she had the stock altered to fit her perfectly. Handguns are the same way, the gun MUST fit properly or shooting will become painful and the shooter will not want to do it.
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Old Yesterday, 01:38 PM   #42
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Bamawife, for example, cannot manage a shotgun, she's quite petite.
I've found that size doesn't matter as much as attitude. Particularly determination. However there are physical limitations no amount of will power can get past.

I'd be willing to bet Bamawife could manage a shotgun, though probably not in the "approved" manner.

I base this on personal experience, with my mother. She was 4'10" (and a half! dammit!!) Wore a size 3.5 ring, and only broke 100lbs during her pregnancies, barely...

She couldn't rack the slide on the Ortgies .25acp Dad got for her, she lacked the grip strength, combined with the small area to be gripped. She could rack the slide on a 1911A1, if she cocked the hammer, first. She could shoot Dad's S&W Highway Patrolman .357, but holding it up at arm's length was a struggle.

She was a crack shot with her .22 rifle and Ruger super Bearcat, neighbors nicknamed her "Annie Oakley".

She could manage her father's Ithaca 12ga SxS, too. But not in the usual way. She didn't shoulder the gun, she shot from the hip, and rather well. She joked that Victoria Barkley taught her (The Big Valley). She would explain, her technique was simple, just grip the gun firmly and let it "swing" her arms back during recoil. She couldn't wing shoot that way, and didn't bother, but any ground target within about 40yds was dead meat, including small fast moving ones (running fox).

It can be done. OF course its easier for some than for others. As an 8yr old, I watched her face down, corner and hold a rather pissed 600lb Angus bull with only a pitchfork, for a half hour or so, until Dad got home and both of them could get him back in the pasture.

If you can't physically do something the regular way, AND you are determined enough, there's almost always a usable "work around".
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Old Yesterday, 05:05 PM   #43
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I'm with post #29. If the come in a short double ,side by side.
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Old Yesterday, 05:45 PM   #44
4V50 Gary
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How about an AR pistol with pistol brace? Mild recoil. Light.
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Old Yesterday, 06:48 PM   #45
SHR970
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[ Time to find out his disabilties, his cans and can nots. Then and only then can we make a serious and credible recommendation.
I stand by this statement. Until we know the limitations of party #2 all recommendations are pure garbage based on pure conjecture. Anyone who can not shoulder nor run the slide of a Rem 870 has as physical disability whether it be size, strength, or other. That disability needs to be properly identified so that they can be better provided advice on how they can be self sustaining in regards to self defense.

If you can not properly mount the weapon, you can not use it. Party #2 can't mount the weapon properly. Party #1 doesn't know how to teach turret use nor can party #2 properly rack the slide. Party #2 (WEAPON OWNER) is at a serious disadvantage due to having a weapon that he is afraid of due to recoil. A pistol brace AR is a non starter for someone who lacks the upper body strength to shoulder an 870.
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Old Yesterday, 06:51 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4V50 Gary
How about an AR pistol with pistol brace? Mild recoil. Light.
The problem with AR pistols is they are really loud with short barrels. I use plug and electronic muffs and I FEEL the concussion of the AR rounds when someone next to me is shooting an AR pistol. I've thought about getting one for a while, but have no practical purpose for one. I have two AR-15's already but most likely won't get an AR pistol. I'm seriously considering an AR type weapon in 9mm like a Sig MPX, but really don't have much need for it either. I really should have bought one before the prices got crazy on them.
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Old Today, 09:32 AM   #47
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Its the Gentleman who bought the shotgun he can't use who must find the answer.
He is the one who must choose to spend the money.He is the one who has an idea of his limitations and he is the one who has to shoot it enough to become confident and competent.

He is also the one who allowed a knucklehead clerk to sell him something he could not use.

Any of us can step in to be the next knucklehead clerk to sell him the idea we think s best.

What the Gentleman does not need is someone selling him answers.

The Gentleman needs someone asking him the right questions. And listening.

What he finds that works best for him will still be a gun,which beats a gun that won't work for him.

And it ay very well be a gun that I would not choose.

Ask the right questions,and let him try a lot of guns.

If he likes shooting a 22 DA revolver, he may like a 327 or 38.

He might not initially like the concept of a 9mm carbine or AR pistol in 300 Blackout,but he might find himself having fun shooting one.

They cost a lot for what you get,but I've not been shooting with anyone who could not manage or enjoy an M-1 carbine. If he shoots it enough to establish reliability and famiiarity,he can be a man not to be fooled with.

A 20 ga Bennelli semi auto with low recoil ammo could be a workable shotgun.

The S+W 380 EZ might be worth looking at.

Only this Gentleman can say "Yes,this works for me"

The OP can help him find it.

That is a good approach for Wives,Moms,and Daughters,too.
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