What's wrong about this story?

Garycw · July 8, 2013, 07:15 PM

This story just came up from lex18 news.
How does a 5 year old have access to a loaded gun and no laws broken? Is securing loaded firearms from children more of just a suggestion???

07/08/2013 - 03:55 PM
The Cumberland County prosecutor says he will not be pressing charges in the death of a two year old girl who was shot by her five-year-old brother.

The coroner says on April 30, Caroline Sparks was shot and killed by her brother while the two were playing in their home.

The Commonwealth's Attorney says he believes there is no probable cause that any crime occurred.

Al Norris · July 8, 2013, 07:26 PM

It would be nice to have a link to the story... But no. Not every State has laws that demand firearms be locked and/or secured.

dakota.potts · July 8, 2013, 07:28 PM

We'd have to know more. Did it belong to somebody in the house? Was it taken off for a second or habitually left laying around loaded? Did somebody forget to lock the safe when they put the gun up?

Not enough information for a judgment for me.

I would think it's the same as kids drowning or drinking toxic chemicals and dying. It can be criminally negligent, or it can be an accident

thallub · July 8, 2013, 07:32 PM

It's a very tragic and sad event.

IMO: The prosecutor is right.

Quote:

The shooting that took the life of Caroline Sparks in southern Kentucky has been ruled an accident, Kentucky State Police Trooper Billy Gregory said.

"It's just one of those nightmares," he said, "a quick thing that happens when you turn your back."

.....................................................................................................

"In this part of the country, it's not uncommon for a 5-year-old to have a gun or for a parent to pass one down to their kid," he said.

Her family kept the Crickett rifle in what they considered to be a safe spot, Cumberland County Coroner Gary White told the CNN affiliate.

The boy was playing with it Tuesday when it accidentally went off and killed his sister, White said.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/01/us/ken...tial-shooting/

Another link:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...-shot/2126431/

BarryLee · July 8, 2013, 07:33 PM

I think we discussed this a few months back. This was the case where the gun actually belonged to the five year old and was stored in the corner of the room. The family thought the gun was unloaded, but obviously they were wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/5-old-boy-shoo...161229579.html

**Tom Servo** · July 8, 2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

The boy was playing with it Tuesday when it accidentally went off and killed his sister, White said.

Guns don't "go off." This wasn't an accident.

We don't need more laws, but if people aren't more conscientious about things, we will get them.

glh17 · July 9, 2013, 10:26 AM

I agree with Tom about the fact that if these accidents with guns thought to be unloaded don't stop they'll be legislation. In the past two months there have been three cases within my area where kids have been killed or injured with guns.

Don't have links but in one case a dad killed either his or daughter while cleaning his gun. I believe the other two involved kids playing with guns left laying around.

I really don't know what type of legislation would prevent this. Maybe lowering the standards necessary to make the parent criminally responsible or requiring guns to be locked. Neither would seem to be very effective. The parent who is negligent enough to leave a loaded guns around kids is likely to pay much attention to either.

stormy36 · July 9, 2013, 10:44 AM

Seems like common sense that the parent should be held criminally liable. If not, the laws need to change so that this qualifies as criminal negligence.

Garycw · July 9, 2013, 11:06 AM

I don't know all the details, just what lex 18 reported. Alot of different things could have contributed to this. In not sure if it would be like a child drowning, getting backed over in driveway, or like leaving a child in a hot car whether it be intentional or careless forgetfulness. Either way its a very sad story for all involved.

csmsss · July 9, 2013, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Guns don't "go off." This wasn't an accident.

Agreed. Further, so many folks (even here) assume/presume that a 5 year old cannot understand how to operate a firearm and/or cannot have a culpable mindset.

From the article linked above:
"It's a little rifle for a kid. ... The little boy's used to shooting the little gun."

So when we read of an event like this, the first instinct, even among those who are investigating the incident, is to assume "tragic accident" when, in fact, it's quite possible the 5 year old intentionally loaded the firearm, pointed it at his sister's head and pulled the trigger. Especially when the circumstances indicate that no adults witnessed the shooting.

Kids today aren't necessarily the innocent naifs we wish them to be. Many are just as capable of committing alarming crimes as any adult.

manta49 · July 9, 2013, 01:24 PM

Locking away firearms when not in use especially when children are about seems like common sense to me. It is a legal requirement here and in most european countries.

SgtLumpy · July 9, 2013, 02:03 PM

Quote:

I really don't know what type of legislation would prevent this. Maybe lowering the standards necessary to make the parent criminally responsible or requiring guns to be locked. Neither would seem to be very effective.

It wouldn't be very effective. Laws of that nature, the ones that try and legislate common sense, aren't followed by those without common sense. And those with common sense already do the right thing.

Surely some guy that leaves his loaded gun laying around while his kids play doesn't say to himself "Hmmm I think I'll lay this gun here because there's no law against it".

And likewise, the guy that kills his kid because he cleaned his gun while it was loaded doesn't say "Hmmm, I think I'll keep this gun loaded while I clean it because there's no law against it"

Stupidity is tragic when it involves innocent bystanders. But there's not much you can do about it.

Sgt Lumpy

Garycw · July 9, 2013, 08:07 PM

Good observation CMSSS. That unfortunately is a very real possibility.

hermannr · July 9, 2013, 08:35 PM

We do not need any "common sense" laws. We need to train children the safe handling and use of firearms.

San Fran had such a "common sense" law. "Must be locked up or on your person"...really effective in the middle of the night when an intruder bursts in, and in a groggy haze you are trying to protect yourself and your loved ones. (BTW: That law was thrown out by the courts)

Al Norris · July 10, 2013, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hermannr

San Fran had such a "common sense" law. "Must be locked up or on your person"...really effective in the middle of the night when an intruder bursts in, and in a groggy haze you are trying to protect yourself and your loved ones. (BTW: That law was thrown out by the courts)

No. It is still in litigation. See Jackson vs. San Francisco

July 8, 2013, 07:15 PM	#1
Garycw Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2011 Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida Posts: 1,221	What's wrong about this story? This story just came up from lex18 news. How does a 5 year old have access to a loaded gun and no laws broken? Is securing loaded firearms from children more of just a suggestion??? 07/08/2013 - 03:55 PM The Cumberland County prosecutor says he will not be pressing charges in the death of a two year old girl who was shot by her five-year-old brother. The coroner says on April 30, Caroline Sparks was shot and killed by her brother while the two were playing in their home. The Commonwealth's Attorney says he believes there is no probable cause that any crime occurred.

July 8, 2013, 07:33 PM	#5
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	I think we discussed this a few months back. This was the case where the gun actually belonged to the five year old and was stored in the corner of the room. The family thought the gun was unloaded, but obviously they were wrong. http://news.yahoo.com/5-old-boy-shoo...161229579.html __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

July 9, 2013, 11:06 AM	#9
Garycw Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2011 Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida Posts: 1,221	What's wrong about this story? I don't know all the details, just what lex 18 reported. Alot of different things could have contributed to this. In not sure if it would be like a child drowning, getting backed over in driveway, or like leaving a child in a hot car whether it be intentional or careless forgetfulness. Either way its a very sad story for all involved.

July 9, 2013, 08:07 PM	#13
Garycw Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2011 Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida Posts: 1,221	What's wrong about this story? Good observation CMSSS. That unfortunately is a very real possibility.

July 8, 2013, 07:26 PM	#2
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	It would be nice to have a link to the story... But no. Not every State has laws that demand firearms be locked and/or secured.

July 8, 2013, 07:28 PM	#3
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	We'd have to know more. Did it belong to somebody in the house? Was it taken off for a second or habitually left laying around loaded? Did somebody forget to lock the safe when they put the gun up? Not enough information for a judgment for me. I would think it's the same as kids drowning or drinking toxic chemicals and dying. It can be criminally negligent, or it can be an accident

July 9, 2013, 10:26 AM	#7
glh17 Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2013 Location: Middle TN Posts: 165	I agree with Tom about the fact that if these accidents with guns thought to be unloaded don't stop they'll be legislation. In the past two months there have been three cases within my area where kids have been killed or injured with guns. Don't have links but in one case a dad killed either his or daughter while cleaning his gun. I believe the other two involved kids playing with guns left laying around. I really don't know what type of legislation would prevent this. Maybe lowering the standards necessary to make the parent criminally responsible or requiring guns to be locked. Neither would seem to be very effective. The parent who is negligent enough to leave a loaded guns around kids is likely to pay much attention to either.

July 9, 2013, 10:44 AM	#8
stormy36 Member Join Date: July 3, 2013 Posts: 21	Seems like common sense that the parent should be held criminally liable. If not, the laws need to change so that this qualifies as criminal negligence.

July 9, 2013, 01:24 PM	#11
manta49 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2011 Location: N Ireland. UK. Posts: 1,809	Locking away firearms when not in use especially when children are about seems like common sense to me. It is a legal requirement here and in most european countries.

July 9, 2013, 08:35 PM	#14
hermannr Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2011 Posts: 730	We do not need any "common sense" laws. We need to train children the safe handling and use of firearms. San Fran had such a "common sense" law. "Must be locked up or on your person"...really effective in the middle of the night when an intruder bursts in, and in a groggy haze you are trying to protect yourself and your loved ones. (BTW: That law was thrown out by the courts)