Carrying While Intoxicated

[JoeSixpack]

I somehow misread the op's question, thought they wanted the law in each state to compare.. well anyway....

I doubt there are any states that say it's ok to be wasted with a gun on your hip, and even if there is one that is silent on the presence of the gun I'd have a hard time believing there are any jurisdictions without a general public intoxication law.

At home I really doubt there is ever going to be a problem.. unless well.. there is a problem and the cops are called.

I found this article via google talking about Texas which seems to just say unless you're drunk it's ok. They do have a legal limit of .08 which im guessing is probably just what ever is already on the books for drunk driving or general public intoxication charge.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ont-mixexcept/
http://www.dps.texas.gov/RSD/CHL/faqs/index.htm
Article is old and says it's question #35 but it's been bumped to #46

§46.035, Texas Penal Code states that it is unlawful for an individual who is intoxicated to carry a handgun. It is important to note that the Penal Code defines “intoxicated” as not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance in the body; or having an alcohol concentration of .08 or more.

I imagine that's about as unrestricted as the op is gonna find.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by JoeSixpack

I found this article via google talking about Texas which seems to just say unless you're drunk it's ok. They do have a legal limit of .08 which im guessing is probably just what ever is already on the books for drunk driving or general public intoxication charge.

You guessed correctly; the definition comes from § 49.01 "Intoxication and Alcoholic Beverage Offenses - Definitions"—in other words, yes, it's the DUI and PI statutes. However, § 49.01 starts with these words, my emphasis in boldface...

49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

...so this definition technically applies ONLY to Chapter 49, and NOT to Chapter 46.

As I discussed earlier, the 0.08 limit is NOT found in the statutes regarding handgun carry (§ 46.035) nor in the generic definitions that apply throughout the entire Penal Code (§ 1.07). IMHO the DPS FAQ is misleading in this regard.

However, notice the way that § 49.01 and the DPS FAQ are worded...

...“intoxicated” [is defined] as not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties [and so and and so forth]; or having an alcohol concentration of .08 or more.

The word "or" is critical. IOW if one lacks "normal use of mental or physical faculties," one can be busted for being intoxicated even with a BAC of ZERO.

Thus, the direct response to the OP's question...

Originally Posted by steve4102

Are there any... States that do not have Statutes regarding... intoxication limits while carrying a firearm?

...I stand by my earlier answer that there is no clear statutory limit in Texas.

Discussion by an actual attorney can be found HERE. As author Walker Byington states:

Under 46.035... there is no ‘magic point’ at which you are legally intoxicated. If your mental or physical faculties are impaired, you could be considered intoxicated no matter how much you’ve had to drink! What on earth does that mean? We don’t really know either. Talk about a legal gray area! Basically, it may boil down to a police officer’s subjective opinion...

(To quote my standard disclaimer that I forgot to include earlier, I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. )

[sixgunnin]

I know this is a legal thread but can't we just use common sense...

ANY drinking and there is NO firearms. I don't care if I am going out for one beer there will be no firearm carried or handled. Laws or otherwise that is just prudent course of action.

[ATN082268]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

There you go. Any amount of anything can be argued to have impaired your judgment. You might not have your motor skills be too impaired to operate a gun, or a car, or whatever, but your JUDGMENT is suspect.

People can exercise poor judgment, with or without alcohol/drugs but that has no effect on the circumstances leading up to a shooting, for example. If a particular defensive shooting is O.K. when the shooter is sober, then logically it should be just as O.K. when they are intoxicated. What the law says and the jury decides is another matter.

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

And, I don't see any real argument other than "no, I was not impaired", which go nowhere with a jury. Its just your word, and while it may be the truth, there's no way to prove it.

If there isn't a legal way to measure if a person is impaired to use a firearm, then you are not only asking the defendant to prove their innocence but also by an impossible (non-existent) standard.

[TomNJVA]

This discussion is about "carrying" and drinking. What about if the gun is in the center console of the car? My understanding is that your car is considered an extension of your home, and here in Virginia you do not require a concealed carry permit for a loaded gun in the glove compartment or center console.

So if I have two drinks at a restaurant with dinner, my BAC would be 0.02 - far from intoxicated and not impaired. With a gun in my center console, would this be considered drinking while carrying? Personally I never drink while "carrying", but I do drink modestly when dining out and do keep a pistol in my car's center console.

BTW, in VA you may be in a bar while carrying concealed but may not have any alcohol to drink while there. If you carry open, however, in the same bar you are permitted to drink as there are no laws prohibiting it. Strange! There are laws, however, against being intoxicated while carrying anywhere outside your home and property.

Tom

[Lohman446]

In MI that "car is an extension of your home" thing does not fly as it does in some states at least down south. Not sure about other states.

[ShootistPRS]

Even without a law it may be difficult to show reasonable judgment if the use of self defense comes into play. If your judgment is impaired enough to affect your ability to drive is it still good enough to judge the intent or actions of another?
Either way it is never a good practice to carry under the influence.

[ATN082268]

Originally Posted by ShootistPRS

Even without a law it may be difficult to show reasonable judgment if the use of self defense comes into play. If your judgment is impaired enough to affect your ability to drive is it still good enough to judge the intent or actions of another?
Either way it is never a good practice to carry under the influence.

I agree that it is a bad idea to drink alcohol while carrying. I just don't think that drinking alcohol in itself automatically makes your defensive shooting, bad Of course a jury may decide otherwise...

[FITASC]

I know this is a legal thread but can't we just use common sense...
Quote:
ANY drinking and there is NO firearms. I don't care if I am going out for one beer there will be no firearm carried or handled. Laws or otherwise that is just prudent course of action.

Not everyone, (and I am one) agrees with that statement. I have no issue having a glass or two of red with my meal; others might and they should act accordingly.

[Badgerstate]

I know that here in Ohio, you cant open carry if youre drinking and you typically cant conceal carry in a bar, so I dont really see it being an issue.

[Chris Karma]

afaik ianal

when I lived in NV it was .10 to be to drunk to carry, .08 for driving.
At one point in time the driving was .10 as well, they fixed the driving to .08 due to drunk moms driving and against it all

I don't drink, so i never worry

[kilimanjaro]

I guess folks can argue the fine points of intoxication, impairment, etc., all they want, but carrying a firearm while your judgement is reduced is one of the stupidest things you can bet your vehicle, bank account, and status of citizenship on.

[HiBC]

The OP's title to his post is "carry While Intoxicated"
While Intoxicated.
Intoxicated means having a toxic level of something in your body.The various states have various means to define "Intoxicated" but if you meet that definition,it would surprise me if any state tolerates carry,concealed or otherwise.
Someone suggested that two drinks with a meal would result in a BAC of .02.
Those are vague terms,and YMMV,but I believe your info is off.
Back when the standard was pretty much 0.1 %,the driver's test included questions about "How much can I drink and stay legal?" Times and standards have changed,but the guideline for 0.1 was 1 drink per hour..for most places,0.1 is old history,but if you eat fast,2 drinks with a meal will break it.
With the newer standard of .04 for impaired,one drink with a meal may be borderline,and two may very well get you to .08,especially if you have a generous bartender.
Two quick beers after work on a hot,thirsty day and you probably are over the .04 impaired line.More likely .06 to .08. That is "busted"

We can argue semantics and "Well,I feel just fine with x number of drinks"
Ok,knock yourself out! I'm not the law.

I get it that SOME folks want to know "Where do I become vulnerable?"

And of course,each state has rules which may vary.Many have very vague (seemingly) rules.
I have never studied law,I'm not a lawyer.Someone mentioned "Common Sense"

If I am involved in a SD shooting,I have to worry if my trigger is under 4 lbs.
I will have to make it through a criminal and a civil court. What will the jury sympathy be toward "The defendant had been drinking before his clouded judgement pulled the trigger and ended the like of young Geoffry,loved by all,looking forward to...."

It won't help you.
As I mentioned for Colorado,yes,a BAC of .04 (one beer) is criteria for impaired. No shooting required. Traffic stop and you are packing. Busted.
In Colorado,smelling beer,pot,etc,the Officer's discretion is sufficient. No 0.04 is necessary. (Pot and gun's? Feds call "Felony")
I suggest the vagueness is not wiggle room that the pistol packing impaired can use to advantage. More likely it is a broader net to catch you with.

My class advised avoiding the problem by making a choice,one or the other.

That will work.

You can do whatever makes you happy. Please do keep us posted on how your argument might workout in court if you choose to test your theory.

[TheDevilThatYouKnow]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

As far as I know, Georgia has no specific statute on the matter.

You are correct, but just to clarify...
OCGA 16-11-134 makes it illegal to discharge a firearm while under the influence unless it is in self defense (a good shoot is still a good shoot and a bad one is still a bad shoot.)
Its is defined as a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature the penalty for which is up to $5k and 12month in jail, or both.

Someone carrying while schnockered isn't illegal so long as he doesn't do anything stupid. If you do, then one hopes the wrath of the state will rightfully rain down upon him. Idiots will of course idiot, but a wise man keeps his imbibing to a minimum.

[TomNJVA]

There are numerous BAC calculators online that take into account your age, gender, weight, number of drinks, type of drinks, and the consumption timeframe. Since they do not include food consumption I believe they assume no food with the drinking. For my age and weight, all of these calculators put my BAC between 0.02 and 0.03 for two standard drinks in one hour.

To hit the impaired level of 0.04 I would need to have three plus drinks in one hour, and in my experience I would indeed feel impaired and I would not drive. I therefore set my top limit to two drinks (usually one), with food over 1.5 hours if driving.

I never drink while carrying, but I do keep a pistol in my car's center console. I am not clear if this is considered "carrying" as in VA a concealed carry permit is not required for a car gun in the glove compartment or console, and the gun is not on my person. Nonetheless, since I do not drive impaired it should not matter.

Tom

[ShootistPRS]

Washington changed its rules a long time ago to "impaired" rather than "intoxicated". Driving "under the influence" means they can arrest you if you have had anything at all to drink. (or have taken cold medicine or any drug that might influence your ability to make a good judgment call. It comes down to the officers ability to decide if you are "under the influence".
I have never seen any laws specifically about the possession of a gun while intoxicated. There are laws in place that restrict addicts and alcoholics from owning or possessing a gun but they have to be convicted of such and not just "high" or "drunk".

[PlatinumCore16]

I live in Colorado. In my class,I was taught the limit was .04,same as driving impaired,however!
There is a loophole. The officer has discretion to call you impaired and no BAC is necessary.
The advice in my class was "Just don't"
Seems like good advice.

Have taken the CO class recently, don't remember this as pertaining to firearms. They only spoke of DWI's and what to do if you were charged with such. Did they quote the specific law at all? Was it perhaps a city or even a county ordinance?

[HiBC]

Platinum,The advice was classroom lecture.I took it in good faith.

I still have the curriculum,notes,and documents from the class. I could take the time to do the research....

But then,I assume you were given the same resources.

I'm satisfied I can make good choices with the information I was taught.

If you require verification I suggest you contact the folks who gave you your training or review the materials they may have provided.

[SHR970]

Carrying while Intoxicated / Carrying while 'Impared'.

I am NOT a lawyer but I believe our usual bevey of Lawyers have been remiss on this subject.

DUI laws are NOT just about alcohol or "banned" (aka Schedule 1) substances. They also cover prescription medications that are schedule 2, 3, & 4. If YOUR prescription drug "impares" you (see warning labels) you can run afoul of your State and Federal laws. Your Blood Pressure Med.s* CAN 'impare' you. If an officer can use field sobriety tests to show imparement then you MIGHT JUST HAVE A LEGAL PROBLEM. Alcohol combined with your prescription medication CAN be an issue even if it is only ONE DRINK.

Something for all of you to think about.

* Then there are pain killers / opiods, and other classes of drugs.

[PlatinumCore16]

HiBC, I'll go back through the notes we were given. I think for the most part, common sense applies, but I would like to know if there's anything written on paper about carrying specifically.

[Bluecthomas]

Not saying it's wise, but I've been known to grab a 6 pack of long necks and a .22 rifle and head out with friends.

But I'm not an angry drunk, .22 is a high powered bb gun, and the 6 pack gets split up.

Btw, I am fully aware that even a normal bb gun can cause serious or even fatal wounds.

[44 AMP]

While what is, or is not a legal limit, or if there is one at all, is useful information, it only really matters when you wind up in court. In other words it matters as to what charges you may face, and whether or not you are ultimately found guilty or innocent.

It really doesn't matter when it comes to a police officer "haulin' you in". I don't believe there is a state that does not have some (often several) laws that allow the officer's judgment alone to be sufficient cause for them to arrest you.

The rest, as they say, "will be sorted out in court".

[gglass]

I live in Indiana where there is no link between one's level of intoxication and the possession of a firearm. This is as it should be.

I do not drink or take drugs of any kind, but I do not believe that someone who has had dinner with a couple of drinks or went out on the town to imbibe should lose all their rights to self-defense. Yes, judgment can be impaired but that is no different than the guy or gal, and there are many, who is taking medication that clearly states not to drive or operate heavy machinery. Clearly, that would be an impairment, yet those millions of people are not asked to give up their God-given right to self-protection.

My oldest son was a passenger (while carrying) in a vehicle that was pulled over after a night of drinking with friends. The sober designated driver changed lanes without signaling, was pulled over, and during the stop, everyone was asked to exit the vehicle. Although my son had obviously had a few drinks, the officers checked his handgun for the duration of the stop, and then returned it to my son when the stop was complete. In other states, my son would have had charges brought against him, and his carry rights stripped.

[southjk]

I wasn't sure about Tennessee so had to look it up. I don't carry when drinking luckily because the law says that it is a misdemeanor to even consume while carrying and will result in the loss of your permit for 3 years.

(b) It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm if the person is both:
(1) Within the confines of an establishment open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102, are served for consumption on the premises; and
(2) Consuming any alcoholic beverage listed in subdivision (b)(1).
(c) (1) A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(2) In addition to the punishment authorized by subdivision (c)(1), if the violation is of subsection (a), occurs in an establishment described in subdivision (b)(1), and the person has a handgun permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1351, such permit shall be suspended in accordance with § 39-17-1352 for a period of three (3) years.

[crazyredneckvet]

In wisconsin it's the same as the limit for a dui (.08 I think?) with two exceptions. 1. restaurants/pubs that you are drinking in. That first drop makes it illegal to carry while inside the bar. If you are not drinking, you are legal. 2. At home. You are not required to put away your firearm at home when you are drinking; however, handling or having that firearm on your person is illegal.