Seating 45ACP

cw308 · June 8, 2018, 07:25 PM

I use the RCBS 45 ACP carbide dies set of 3 , size & decap , bell , seat taper crimp die. I use to seat an crimp in one stroke is how the die is suppose to be used . Someone in this forum advised me to seat an crimp in separate steps. I did it today an you are correct , may take a little longer but much more precise . I'm using a single stage press ( Rockchucker ) my one an only . Thanks again .

Chris

kmw1954 · June 8, 2018, 08:55 PM

Sometimes it pays to keep an open mind and try new ideas. Glad this works as you expected! I try to keep my hobbies as enjoyable as possible.

cw308 · June 8, 2018, 09:05 PM

kmw1954
I always get helpful information on this forum . Great group of people.

Nathan · June 8, 2018, 09:13 PM

I agree that the dies were designed to seat & crimp in one step, but like you've learned separate is easier to setup and to execute!

FITASC · June 8, 2018, 09:26 PM

I have never had an issue seating and crimping with one die, but then I like things simple so I shoot the same type of bullet in whatever cartridge I am loading - 158 in 38/357, 124 in 9mm, 230 in 45, and so on. Once set, the dies do not change.

kmw1954 · June 8, 2018, 09:26 PM

Yes, helpful information if not lively debate.

I do enjoy the folks here and have learned from many, while I've disagreed with a few, I have had my views changed on occasion also. Even the ones I've disagreed with there are no hard feelings or ill will.

Nick_C_S · June 8, 2018, 09:46 PM

Once you go progressive, the point is moot.

But I loaded on a single stage for 31 years. And it didn't take long to figure out that doing them in separate operations makes better ammo. But even then, my basic lead target shooters for 38 and 45 ACP were done in one operation, and they came out just fine.

Maybe I've gone too far, but now that I've gone progressive, I actually do three crimps in the case of roll crimped ammo. The first die seats and takes out most of the flair (I flair generously); the second die taper crimps, and the third die is a Lee FCD and performs a roll crimp, if applicable.

Charlie98 · June 9, 2018, 08:55 AM

I bought my 5-station Hornady ProJector press specifically because it had 5 stations... so I could seat and crimp in a separate step. It's worked pretty good for the past 25 years...

Having said that, there are a few cartridges I still one-step the seat and crimp... I have found it works better with something like a cast bullet with a crimp groove vs a FMJ bullet, for example, with no crimp groove, particularly with a heavy crimp (for something like a Magnum charge of W296, etc.)

cw308 · June 9, 2018, 01:34 PM

When seated an taper crimp with plated bullets ( 230 gr. FMJ or should I say RN ) with plated . The plated bullets would slightly flatten . When using the same die , backed the die out , lowered the seating plug to the OAL I wanted ,seated all the cases . Backed out the plug lowered the die to remove the bell an taper crimped all the cases . The rounds were more consistent without any flattening . Both ways never caused a problem in the pistol , I'm not in an rush to load , after all I'm only loading 50 at a time . Why not make them as precise as possible . Thank You All for all your input .

Chris

Steve in PA · June 9, 2018, 05:22 PM

I'm trying to wrap my head around the issue......well, were people are having issues seating and crimping in the same step.

I've been reloading since about 1991 and for all my handguns rounds (.380, 9mm, .38/.357, .44mag and .45acp), I've always seated and crimped in the same step.

For my training/plinking 9mm and .45acp, I use plated bullets. Primarily Rainier, but some Berry thrown into the mix. Never had an issue with seating not being precise.

Guess I've been lucky. Use the method that works best for you is always the way to go.

kmw1954 · June 9, 2018, 06:54 PM

Will admit I have been a one step seat/crimp as that is they way that 3 die pistol sets are designed to be used. That is until I purchased a Tanfoglio Witness 45acp. No matter what I tried I couldn't get them to chamber properly. Even tried the 2 step seat then crimp. That corrected about 95% but still ran into problems. Lastly I went to a Lee Carbide FCD, not the taper crimp, and that solved the problem completely.

USSR · June 10, 2018, 06:30 AM

Chris,

In the reloading course I teach, I teach to seat and crimp in separate operation for pistol rounds. With revolver rounds, on the other hand, both operations can be done at once.

Don

AVirginian · June 10, 2018, 07:58 AM

I use both methods. So, my opinion is, whatever floats your boat, both work just fine if setup properly.

robhic · June 10, 2018, 09:46 AM

USSR said:

Quote:

In the reloading course I teach, I teach to seat and crimp in separate operation for pistol rounds. With revolver rounds, on the other hand, both operations can be done at once.

Can I ask why? I seat and crimp with the RCBS carbide for pistol (.45acp, 9mm, .380acp) but found using a Lee FCD in a 4th step to crimp/finish revolver (.38spl, 357 mag and .45Colt) was better. I had done it in 1 step at first but got a FCD after a while and like it.

This is opposite of your technique and I am curious. Thanks!

mikld · June 10, 2018, 10:41 AM

FWIW; I still, after 30+ years, prefer to seat and crimp in two steps, but I often use "different" crimping dies. For my revolvers I use a Redding Profile Crimp, and a Lee Collet Crimp. For my semi-autos I just barely kiss the case mouth with a taper crimp die, just enough to straighten out the case mouth. I don't have any chambering problems that can't be fixed, and in my 30+ years have never had any need to resize my handloads as a final step (I only own 6 center fire semi-auto pistols). Any problems with rounds fitting my guns is 99% of the time fixed with die adjustments (jacketed, cast coated, plated bullets, mixed brass)...

Nathan · June 10, 2018, 11:05 AM

Quote:

hen seated an taper crimp with plated bullets ( 230 gr. FMJ or should I say RN ) with plated . The plated bullets would slightly flatten . ....

Are you using the flat seater or the round nose seater? Sounds like you are using the flat one...

cw308 · June 10, 2018, 02:20 PM

Steve in PA
The only problem I have was when using Rainier 45acp 230 gr. Plated ,the tips would flatten slightly. Maybe caused by the resistance when seating an crimping in one step . Tried it in two steps felt it went much smoother .

cw308 · June 10, 2018, 02:26 PM

Nathan
It wood seem like it but no I'm using the round nose plug , thanks though . Plateing is alittle softer , it's just very little , I'm sure it's from the same step process , maybe just picking hairs , doesn't happen with FMJ's only plated .

cw308 · June 10, 2018, 02:33 PM

Kmw1954
What is the difference with the factory crimp die , do you think from a one step seat/ crimp die roll or taper , set up should be the same . I guess if it works it works .

cw308 · June 10, 2018, 02:45 PM

robhic
I think it is in the setup. I've used the RCBS Carbide die to seat an crimp in one step , worked fine but with softer bullets you may have flattening issues , two steps you don't . I never even noticed it until I read an article an looked and I did have flattening , doesn't cause any problems just want the bullets to keep their shape .

cw308 · June 10, 2018, 03:02 PM

USSR
With a revolver I use to trim my brass so the roll crimp would be the same , revolvers OAL an without the proper crimp you risk having the bullet moving forward binding the cylinder . You can get away with it easier with a auto . Seating an crimping in separate steps takes alittle longer but the end result is much smoother , and I believe much more accurate OAL. That squeeze an press at the same time is tuffer on the reload . Works fine if you want to get the job done fast , I'm in no rush only loading 50 at a time so two steps I like better .

cw308 · June 10, 2018, 03:07 PM

AVirginian
I agree , if your turning good reloads both ways . Give both a try

kmw1954 · June 10, 2018, 04:26 PM

cw308 when I started with the 45acp I was loading as I was everything else and seating/crimping in the same step. Then came the Witness and I started having trouble with any and every reload in it. A couple different people at the CZ/Tanfoglio forum suggested right away that I go to the FCD and yes I resisted.

The FCD has a carbide insert that also has a taper to it and applies a longer taper crimp to the case or so I'm told. Anyway, it worked and works well.

USSR · June 10, 2018, 04:34 PM

USSR said:
Quote:
In the reloading course I teach, I teach to seat and crimp in separate operation for pistol rounds. With revolver rounds, on the other hand, both operations can be done at once.

Quote:

Can I ask why? I seat and crimp with the RCBS carbide for pistol (.45acp, 9mm, .380acp) but found using a Lee FCD in a 4th step to crimp/finish revolver (.38spl, 357 mag and .45Colt) was better. I had done it in 1 step at first but got a FCD after a while and like it.

This is opposite of your technique and I am curious. Thanks!

Sure. First, you're asking a lot of a pistol round. Come out of the magazine, hit the feed ramp at the proper angle, and chamber cleanly. You know when your loading a revolver if all your cartridge will chamber, not so with an autoloader. Second, the crimp used is totally different and serves a different purpose. With a revolver, the only part of the case being crimped is a small part in the case mouth area, and it is being pushed into a hollow area comprised of a crimp groove. Unless you get carried away with the crimp, there is no problem pushing the bullet deeper into the case while applying the crimp. However, with the taper crimp being applied to a pistol round, the crimp area is much larger and is being applied to the side of the bullet while you are continuing to push the bullet deeper in the case. This squeezing of the upper portion of the case while seating the bullet can cause some distortion of the thin brass case below the base of the bullet. For this reason, I recommend setting up a pistol seating die to do only bullet seating and seating all the bullets to the proper OAL, followed by setting up the seating die to only apply a crimp. Hope that makes sense.

Don

cw308 · June 10, 2018, 07:17 PM

kmw1954
It's nice when the right tool makes the problem go away . Now go shoot the heck out of your new pistol .

Chris

June 8, 2018, 07:25 PM	#1
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Seating 45ACP I use the RCBS 45 ACP carbide dies set of 3 , size & decap , bell , seat taper crimp die. I use to seat an crimp in one stroke is how the die is suppose to be used . Someone in this forum advised me to seat an crimp in separate steps. I did it today an you are correct , may take a little longer but much more precise . I'm using a single stage press ( Rockchucker ) my one an only . Thanks again . Chris

June 8, 2018, 09:26 PM	#5
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,443	I have never had an issue seating and crimping with one die, but then I like things simple so I shoot the same type of bullet in whatever cartridge I am loading - 158 in 38/357, 124 in 9mm, 230 in 45, and so on. Once set, the dies do not change. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

June 8, 2018, 09:46 PM	#7
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Once you go progressive, the point is moot. But I loaded on a single stage for 31 years. And it didn't take long to figure out that doing them in separate operations makes better ammo. But even then, my basic lead target shooters for 38 and 45 ACP were done in one operation, and they came out just fine. Maybe I've gone too far, but now that I've gone progressive, I actually do three crimps in the case of roll crimped ammo. The first die seats and takes out most of the flair (I flair generously); the second die taper crimps, and the third die is a Lee FCD and performs a roll crimp, if applicable. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

June 9, 2018, 08:55 AM	#8
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	I bought my 5-station Hornady ProJector press specifically because it had 5 stations... so I could seat and crimp in a separate step. It's worked pretty good for the past 25 years... Having said that, there are a few cartridges I still one-step the seat and crimp... I have found it works better with something like a cast bullet with a crimp groove vs a FMJ bullet, for example, with no crimp groove, particularly with a heavy crimp (for something like a Magnum charge of W296, etc.) __________________ _______________ "I have this pistol pointed at your heart!" "That is my least vulnerable spot."

June 9, 2018, 05:22 PM	#10
Steve in PA Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 1999 Location: Northeastern PA Posts: 756	I'm trying to wrap my head around the issue......well, were people are having issues seating and crimping in the same step. I've been reloading since about 1991 and for all my handguns rounds (.380, 9mm, .38/.357, .44mag and .45acp), I've always seated and crimped in the same step. For my training/plinking 9mm and .45acp, I use plated bullets. Primarily Rainier, but some Berry thrown into the mix. Never had an issue with seating not being precise. Guess I've been lucky. Use the method that works best for you is always the way to go. __________________ Steve

June 8, 2018, 08:55 PM	#2
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	Sometimes it pays to keep an open mind and try new ideas. Glad this works as you expected! I try to keep my hobbies as enjoyable as possible.

June 8, 2018, 09:05 PM	#3
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	kmw1954 I always get helpful information on this forum . Great group of people.

June 8, 2018, 09:13 PM	#4
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,328	I agree that the dies were designed to seat & crimp in one step, but like you've learned separate is easier to setup and to execute!

June 9, 2018, 01:34 PM	#9
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	When seated an taper crimp with plated bullets ( 230 gr. FMJ or should I say RN ) with plated . The plated bullets would slightly flatten . When using the same die , backed the die out , lowered the seating plug to the OAL I wanted ,seated all the cases . Backed out the plug lowered the die to remove the bell an taper crimped all the cases . The rounds were more consistent without any flattening . Both ways never caused a problem in the pistol , I'm not in an rush to load , after all I'm only loading 50 at a time . Why not make them as precise as possible . Thank You All for all your input . Chris

June 9, 2018, 06:54 PM	#11
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	Will admit I have been a one step seat/crimp as that is they way that 3 die pistol sets are designed to be used. That is until I purchased a Tanfoglio Witness 45acp. No matter what I tried I couldn't get them to chamber properly. Even tried the 2 step seat then crimp. That corrected about 95% but still ran into problems. Lastly I went to a Lee Carbide FCD, not the taper crimp, and that solved the problem completely.

June 10, 2018, 06:30 AM	#12
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	Chris, In the reloading course I teach, I teach to seat and crimp in separate operation for pistol rounds. With revolver rounds, on the other hand, both operations can be done at once. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

June 10, 2018, 07:58 AM	#13
AVirginian Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2014 Posts: 128	I use both methods. So, my opinion is, whatever floats your boat, both work just fine if setup properly.

June 10, 2018, 10:41 AM	#15
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	FWIW; I still, after 30+ years, prefer to seat and crimp in two steps, but I often use "different" crimping dies. For my revolvers I use a Redding Profile Crimp, and a Lee Collet Crimp. For my semi-autos I just barely kiss the case mouth with a taper crimp die, just enough to straighten out the case mouth. I don't have any chambering problems that can't be fixed, and in my 30+ years have never had any need to resize my handloads as a final step (I only own 6 center fire semi-auto pistols). Any problems with rounds fitting my guns is 99% of the time fixed with die adjustments (jacketed, cast coated, plated bullets, mixed brass)... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

June 10, 2018, 02:20 PM	#17
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Steve in PA The only problem I have was when using Rainier 45acp 230 gr. Plated ,the tips would flatten slightly. Maybe caused by the resistance when seating an crimping in one step . Tried it in two steps felt it went much smoother .

June 10, 2018, 02:26 PM	#18
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Nathan It wood seem like it but no I'm using the round nose plug , thanks though . Plateing is alittle softer , it's just very little , I'm sure it's from the same step process , maybe just picking hairs , doesn't happen with FMJ's only plated .

June 10, 2018, 02:33 PM	#19
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Kmw1954 What is the difference with the factory crimp die , do you think from a one step seat/ crimp die roll or taper , set up should be the same . I guess if it works it works .

June 10, 2018, 02:45 PM	#20
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	robhic I think it is in the setup. I've used the RCBS Carbide die to seat an crimp in one step , worked fine but with softer bullets you may have flattening issues , two steps you don't . I never even noticed it until I read an article an looked and I did have flattening , doesn't cause any problems just want the bullets to keep their shape .

June 10, 2018, 03:02 PM	#21
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	USSR With a revolver I use to trim my brass so the roll crimp would be the same , revolvers OAL an without the proper crimp you risk having the bullet moving forward binding the cylinder . You can get away with it easier with a auto . Seating an crimping in separate steps takes alittle longer but the end result is much smoother , and I believe much more accurate OAL. That squeeze an press at the same time is tuffer on the reload . Works fine if you want to get the job done fast , I'm in no rush only loading 50 at a time so two steps I like better .

June 10, 2018, 03:07 PM	#22
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	AVirginian I agree , if your turning good reloads both ways . Give both a try

June 10, 2018, 04:26 PM	#23
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	cw308 when I started with the 45acp I was loading as I was everything else and seating/crimping in the same step. Then came the Witness and I started having trouble with any and every reload in it. A couple different people at the CZ/Tanfoglio forum suggested right away that I go to the FCD and yes I resisted. The FCD has a carbide insert that also has a taper to it and applies a longer taper crimp to the case or so I'm told. Anyway, it worked and works well.

June 10, 2018, 07:17 PM	#25
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	kmw1954 It's nice when the right tool makes the problem go away . Now go shoot the heck out of your new pistol . Chris Last edited by cw308; June 10, 2018 at 09:07 PM.