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Old July 6, 2006, 11:23 AM   #1
DBOUNCE1
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Manufacturing SMG's YOURSELF

FIRST OF ALL I JUST WANT TO START THIS BY SAYING, I AM IN NO WAY EVEN ENTERTAINING THE IDEA OF MANUFACTURING A FIREARM MYSELF!


I JUST HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS....

The other day i was looking around on gunbroker for parts for the old marlin .22 i'm restoring i know it's nothing special but it was my first gun that was given to me by my dad. Anyway i came across some parts for a Mac 10 and such not, so my curosity got the best of me and i had to take a look so anyway i began to look deeper and my search led me to Cobrayparts.com and there i think you will find all the necessary parys to build a Sub Machine Pistol yourself i mean you have to weld the magazine well yourself and buy an upper but really is it all there?

So aside from that question, the reason for this thread is to get an answer for this one......


Is it really this easy to a SMG into the wrong hands? The lower reciever sides and bottom center are sold seperately and you have to weld them yourself so it isn't considered a receiver so it dosen't have to go through a FFL
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Old July 6, 2006, 11:40 AM   #2
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There are lots of illegal ways to manufacture a SMG yourself. What you describe sounds plausible, but it would take some skilled welding and finishing on the part of someone. Then to say that it was welded correctly and that the internals fit correctly and functioned correctly would be difficult but do-able. Still highly illegal, it would be way less work to modify (illegally) an existing firearm to fire full auto. This is why NFA owners hate the NFA. It seems like legit auto's are frowned upon because the bad guys guns are all illegal. Most 'common folk' think all MG's are illegal anyway.
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Old July 6, 2006, 01:18 PM   #3
DBOUNCE1
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thanks for your input man i appreciate it
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Old July 6, 2006, 01:45 PM   #4
Brian Williams
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If you could get a signed Form 1 and make all the parts yourself. Then with no interstate sales, you could be legal, but ATF is not signing form 1s
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Old July 6, 2006, 02:38 PM   #5
Don H
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Quote:
FIRST OF ALL I JUST WANT TO START THIS BY SAYING, I AM IN NO WAY EVEN ENTERTAINING THE IDEA OF MANUFACTURING A FIREARM MYSELF!
Why the disclaimer? It's not illegal to manufacture a firearm.
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Old July 6, 2006, 03:31 PM   #6
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but it is to manufacture a MG without SOT.
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Old July 6, 2006, 03:34 PM   #7
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I would be more interested in ponying up the cash for an Ingram and then reworking it to fire drum fed 7.62 out of a 20" barrel.
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Old July 6, 2006, 03:36 PM   #8
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why what does it normally shoot?
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Old July 6, 2006, 03:56 PM   #9
Don H
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True.
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Old July 6, 2006, 04:14 PM   #10
James K
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Advertisement:

Buy parts from us and make your own machinegun!

Easy. No problems. Our parts require only a little work.

Give us your full address so we can assist you.

Bobby and Tommy Francis Enterprises

(Jim)
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Old July 6, 2006, 07:48 PM   #11
VUPDblue
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That must be the Bob and Tom from the radio! Gee I never knew they were gun guys......! Where can I buy those illegal parts, I just have to git me sum!

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Old July 7, 2006, 05:58 AM   #12
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Been there, done that. Paranoia is the key word. You used to be able to own the parts, but, putting them together is what got you 10/10,000, in San Quentin. Thanks, but no thanks.

Don't know the laws now. That was so long ago, Nixon was president...

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Old July 12, 2006, 08:43 PM   #13
silicon wolverine
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Even owning the parts is the same as assembling/operating an illegal MG. Just like having a standard, legal AR and a 11.5 inch upper in the smae house is illegal. BUT just having a 11.5 upper with no other ARs in the house IS legal. GO figure

SW
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Old July 12, 2006, 09:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Even owning the parts is the same as assembling/operating an illegal MG. Just like having a standard, legal AR and a 11.5 inch upper in the smae house is illegal. BUT just having a 11.5 upper with no other ARs in the house IS legal. GO figure
Not true as far as my research goes...

There is no "constructive possesion" of an SBR.

I may be wrong but I have extensively researched the issue so I could complete a few projects.....
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Old July 12, 2006, 11:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Not true as far as my research goes...

There is no "constructive possesion" of an SBR.

I may be wrong but I have extensively researched the issue so I could complete a few projects.....
Quote:
DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, DC 20226

MAR 29 2000

903050:GKD
3311

Dear Mr. :

This refers to your letter of January 22, 1999, requesting
information on the legality of possessing a registered full auto
AR15 and also possessing one or more semiautomatic pre-1994
assembled AR15 rifles. You appended a number of specific questions
relating to this subject which will be answered in the order
received.

<snip>

4. Can you have several short barrel uppers (less than 16 inches)
for the registered AR and still own semi-auto AR's?

The definition of a firearm in section 5845 of the NFA includes a
rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
An individual possessing more than one short (less than 16 inches)
barreled upper receiver for a registered AR15 machinegun along with
one or more semiautomatic AR15 rifles would have under their
possession of control an unregistered short barreled rifle, a
violation of the NFA.


<snip>

We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry.
If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.


Sincerely yours,


[signed]
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu...f_letter90.txt
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Old July 12, 2006, 11:59 PM   #16
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Re: Jim Keenan

Quote:
Bobby and Tommy Francis Enterprises
Just figured it out. LMAO.
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Old July 13, 2006, 08:12 PM   #17
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Well, heck!

I don't remember reading that one...I thought I read all of them.

I stand corrected.

If however you have an AR-15 pistol and an AR-15, I don't think they can tag you for "constructive possesion" of an SBR..

As long as there is one upper for one receiver....

I am going to throw in my opinion on this one:CRAP!!!

I wonder if they would actually try to prosecute for this, or if it one those "add-ons" when someone gets in trouble so they can really lay the hammer down?
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Old July 20, 2006, 07:35 PM   #18
silicon wolverine
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Yes you can own AR pistols and AR rifles as long as the AR pistol top stays on the AR pistol lower. You can own a pistol and put a rifle upper on it but not the other way round'

SW
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Old July 20, 2006, 07:43 PM   #19
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Beating a dead horse

I feel obligated to point out (in every one of these threads) that these parts are not illegal, nor is their possession illegal, nor is assembling them illegal: as long as you own a legally registered machine gun.
People see machine gun parts for sale and automatically assume that the reason they are being sold is for the purpose of illegally manufactururing a machine gun.
There are many thousands of people in this country that legally own machine guns. They sometimes need to buy parts for them. These parts are out there for sale and it is all perfectly legal.

"An individual possessing more than one short (less than 16 inches)
barreled upper receiver for a registered AR15 machinegun along with
one or more semiautomatic AR15 rifles would have under their
possession of control an unregistered short barreled rifle, a
violation of the NFA."

BS
This of course assumes that you don't own one or more AR15 rifles that ARE registered as short barreled rifles. I own three as well as an AR15 pistol that has the receiver marked as a pistol. So, the above statement is not nessessarily true.
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Old July 20, 2006, 08:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
I own three as well as an AR15 pistol that has the receiver marked as a pistol. So, the above statement is not nessessarily true.
You don't meet the requirement by not having a single, non-SBR registered AR-15 rifle plus one extra <16" upper, therefore per ATF logic, you do not have the ability to construct a non-registered SBR.

I wonder if ATF considers your pistol AR along with an extra AR shoulder stock to be in possession of an unregistered SBR. Bet you have more shoulder stocks than you have rifle receivers.
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Old August 30, 2006, 06:22 PM   #21
bennnn
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ak

are semi auto ak pistols legal? I see them advertised all over but what are the legalities of these,, also is there a legal select fire ak pistol? I live in a state where select fire guns can be legaly owned,, but what about "pistols"?
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Old August 30, 2006, 09:14 PM   #22
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Yes, AK pistols can be legal as long as they are registered as a pistol.

A select fire AK pistol would have to be registered with the NFA as a MG.

An MG can be either a rifle or a pistol; still registered the same.
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Old September 12, 2006, 01:26 AM   #23
3 weelin geezer
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Who do you register (is that even done?) with? The batf site says that you can make your own firearms as long as they are not MG's but you don't have to tell them (or am I wrong?). It doesnt say you have to serialize them if you don't want to (but helpful if barney comes swinging his nightstick and asks for an apple only to "find" a seemingly untraceable therefore illegal weapon) but it is recommended to help aid in tracking it if its used in a crime. Now, if you are legally making a S/F pistol for uncle sam, you would need to tell the atf within 24 hrs of making the reciever I believe it said.
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Old September 12, 2006, 09:41 AM   #24
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Takes alot more than just welding a few parts together as far as macs are concerned.The open bolt smg mac is a different animal altogether than the semiauto version that uses a hammer and a spring loaded short firing pin.The internal parts are totally different as also the bolt is different.

Without assembling an open bolt smg such as the mac series, correctly, could create a situation that might cause premature detonation of the primer,aka instant handgrenade, plus the trip to the bighouse and fines.


To get around the SBR ,you would have to start with a virgin receiver that started off as a pistol and registerd originally as a pistol receiver.Ak pistols are legal and dont require an special 200 dollar nfa tax, which is why you see them without the stock.Adding the stock is what changes its status.
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