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Old July 5, 2005, 06:34 PM   #26
Heist
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Although we only hear about the army guys doing it that get caught, this was by privatized types.
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Old July 5, 2005, 09:49 PM   #27
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There's a huge market of people just bringing the receivers from Iraq and dropping them into legal AKs.
Baloney.

I'm sure there have been some that have been snuck back, but its not widespread and there's no "huge market". Higher quality AK parts are already relatively cheap and easy to legally obtain here. Hardy worth the risk of a felony for importing parts sans the required F6 for less than $300 worth of parts. No one with an IQ higher than their shoe size would bother with a receiver.
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Old July 5, 2005, 10:08 PM   #28
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Wy would you want to ruin a perfectly good 'ak' doing this? Join the army and get to go where they are used (legally?) where there is infinite beachhead but no beach and there are NO 'girls gone wild' videos available. Where you can actually say I smoked a camel (with said ak) and come back with pictures. You also get to play with RPG's and other machine guns on someone else's tab. Hell, if you are lucky enough, you may get to play soldier with a real actual honest to goodness tank that really fires and you don't have to make that motorboat sound that makes your lips go numb.

No, really. If you want to shoot real quick, learn to bump fire that thing or get a hellfire spring. My brother has one and it really works. Just that the gun has to be broken in good first. His friend emptied the 20 rd magazine non stop like a real ak. It works best on these guns I think. Ar-15 shoot maybe 2-3 rd bursts.
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Old July 5, 2005, 10:19 PM   #29
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Hey, jim. I have a real lightsaber. Honest. Made it myself. I used a bunch of stuff from lowe's hardware, Walmart, and some bits and pieces from a used speak and spell I found at Radio shack. Oh, yeah. I also used my dad's golf club for the blade. I don't think he uses the #5 too much so he may not miss it. No, they don't just wave handles at each other. They use aluminum poles and a coreee...chory...Aww! the guy that thinks up how they fight. You know what I mean.
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Old July 5, 2005, 10:23 PM   #30
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I have a SAR1 and I like it just fine as a semi
If I feel the urge to shoot a machine gun, I just go to my buddies and run a few mags thru his Sten.
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Old July 5, 2005, 10:25 PM   #31
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Which is legal BTW. I know that would be the next post.
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Old July 6, 2005, 05:34 AM   #32
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I find it hard to believe that people who can break an AK down to the receiver and then reassemble them again would have any difficulty converting a semi receiver to an illegal machine gun. The conversion isn't as simple as just dropping in a few parts, but it's still a heck of alot easier than smuggling in receivers from overseas and a whole lot less risky. Only a moron would bring receivers back.
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Old July 9, 2005, 08:55 PM   #33
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I agree. Having the opportunity to shoot one over 'there' and taking lots of video to remember the occasion would sure be better than spending time in jail, losing a lot of money and the future headaches such a conviction would bring.
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Old July 11, 2005, 11:33 AM   #34
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The statement that AR-15 FA parts are just "drop-in" is not entirely true. A proper conversion requires installation of the full auto sear, which does involve drilling and machining the civilian AR-15 receiver. The so-called "drop-in auto sear (DIAS) will function but requires that the other parts (bolt carrier, trigger, hammer, sear, selector) be in the M2 configuration. Further, the DIAS is now a machinegun of itself and can legally be used to convert an AR-15 to FA only if registered (few are).

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Old July 11, 2005, 02:07 PM   #35
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The statement that AR-15 FA parts are just "drop-in" is not entirely true.
A semi-auto AR-15 with M-16A2 fire control parts will fire three-round bursts, even without an auto sear or any modification to the receiver. I have witnessed this first-hand. One should avoid having M-16 parts anywhere near an AR-15.

Quote:
There's a huge market of people just bringing the receivers from Iraq and dropping them into legal AKs.
There is nothing "drop in" about changing the receiver of an AK. As mentioned before, it would be easier to convert an existing semi-auto receiver to full-auto. I have seen this done several times by a C2 manufacturer friend of mine.
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Old July 11, 2005, 03:25 PM   #36
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A semi-auto AR-15 with M-16A2 fire control parts will fire three-round bursts, even without an auto sear or any modification to the receiver. I have witnessed this first-hand. One should avoid having M-16 parts anywhere near an AR-15.
It may work, but not reliably. What you're doing is creating a slam fire operation. In a rifle it is both extremely unreliable, and very dangerous. When the hammer rides the bolt home, there is often not enough power to fire a round so you'll often have stoppages - live round in the chamber with the hammer down. In such a situation you'll need to use the charging handle to extract & eject the round in the chamber and recock the hammer before you can continue to fire. Very unpredictable, annoying, and unreliable. Also by operating a rifle in a slam fire mode, you run the risk of a catastrophic failure by touching off the round before fully chambered. Unless one enjoys the possibility of pulling pieces of the bolt and reveiver out of their face its not a smart idea. Timing is an important function in a machinegun and for good reason.
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Old July 11, 2005, 03:42 PM   #37
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It may work, but not reliably. What you're doing is creating a slam fire operation. In a rifle it is both extremely unreliable, and very dangerous. When the hammer rides the bolt home, there is often not enough power to fire a round so you'll often have stoppages - live round in the chamber with the hammer down.
I am aware of these things, but the rifle I witnessed being fired with these modifications fired three-round bursts reliably. I wouldn't have thought this was possible if I had not seen it myself. I have heard that some FALs will fire this way also, but I have not seen it for myself, and I would not try it for fear of an out-of-battery ignition.
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Old August 1, 2005, 08:04 PM   #38
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"Baloney.

I'm sure there have been some that have been snuck back, but its not widespread and there's no huge market".

That might be true for GI's in Iraq, but there is indeed a huge worldwide market for all types of guns. In high school I was offered AK's as well as Thompsons, uzi's, Mac's BXP's, and a lot of other stuff. I'm not quite sure where this stuff comes from, but most drug dealers can get you guns through their connections.
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Old September 24, 2005, 08:58 PM   #39
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A few jots from one who knows

We all know - - don't we - - that anyone with a few smarts in computers can find your language, filter your text for finding any topic they choose, list your computer's whereabouts and frequency of use by various users (as in a public library) and track you down for many and varied offenses you might commit, and even lock you away for an indeterminate time......do we not ?? Just as a perv can be scammed into a "date" with a bogus teeny-bopper, just the same way our conversations can be monitored without search-warrent, by any number of Federal organizations. "They" have probably perched on this site for quite awhile. Sleep safe, sleep tight, sleep legal. That being said, I have a "friend" who showed me an SKS he'd tricked out into "full race" configuration, folding stock and all that "banned" stuff, including select-fire, via a removable key out the bottom of the receiver, and a suppressor which would run at FA and sound like an air rifle. Except it got cherry red after about five minutes. I had no use for one like that but this was 10 years ago. Maybe now I would like to see him again, but I'd sure not ask his address on this page of this site. "It's not really illegal if they don't catch you at it." Not true.
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Old September 27, 2005, 09:53 AM   #40
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Man, what is the point of converting to full auto illegally? You can't shoot it, you can't enjoy it, you risk getting sent to jail and butt raped for years, and you threaten every single law abiding gun owner by giving the antis good reason to not trust gun owners. It's a no-win situation and hurts more people than just you.

If you really love full auto that much then fill out the proper paperwork and get licensed, make a career out of it, etc so it's legit and you don't have to worry about doing anything that can land you in jail. Or just fly to vegas and go to the legal firing ranges where you can pay to shoot them.

Either way, it's just so dumb to risk it for a full auto, and puts the whole shooting sports at risk, so my recommendation is to not do it.
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Old October 3, 2005, 11:27 PM   #41
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They turn them full auto very carefully

SimonVallore
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Posts: 15 How do people turn these ak's full auto

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

how are poeple turning ak's full autyo i heard they file down the sear pin is this true and is there a way they do it that it wont just empty the gun


There is no sear in a semi-auto AKM. Most wannabe 1 minute conversions like you are describing rely on simply disabling the disconnector and allowing the hammer to free fall behind the bolt carrier as it moves forward back into battery for as long as the trigger is pulled. One of three things will happen: 1. The gun will basicly slam fire and you will have pseudo-full auto fire 2. The hammer will not strike the firing pin hard enough to fire the primer since it is traveling at the same speed as, and basicly resting on, the bolt carrier and stops at almost the same instant the carrier does (especially with hard primers e.g. Yugo military ammo) If you have an AKM variant insert a loaded mag keep the weapon pointed in a safe direction, fully retract the charging handle and let it slam forward chambering a round. Now remove the magazine and extract the round and note the indent on the (hopefully) unfired primer. The ammunition is designed to withstand nominal impact of the firing pin as the bolt travels forward under normal operation. The impact from the falling hammer won't be much greater if it's allowed to simply follow the bolt carrier as just described. 3. The weapon will fire out of battery i.e. bolt not locked and will blow up making the operator wish he had never tried something so dangerously stupid. IMHO 2 is the most likely occurrence with 3 a close second and 1 a rather distant 3rd. The pressure of the 7.62X39 round is about 40,000 PSI. Not something to play around.

Most correct NFA conversions were done simply by replacing the semi-auto fire control parts with full auto parts along with the bolt carrier and drilling the receiver to accept the needed axis pin. Anytime the bolt or carrier are replaced the headspace MUST be checked. The full auto parts are and have been legal, plentiful and cheap. Far cheaper than machining up a custom solution. It's a very simple conversion since the weapons were originally designed as select fire in the first place and have just been given minor changes to limit them to semi only. I can't see any reason any responsible person would use anything but factory parts in the same configuration as originally intended.

In a nutshell it's now illegal for individuals to manufacture new machine guns although there is a legal precendent which if upheld by the supreme court may change this under some specfic circumstances. In a nutshell the 9th circuit has ruled in US v Robert Stewart Wilson Jr. that congress has no authority to regulate machineguns or manufacture thereof not substantially affecting interstate commerce. "substantially affecting interstate commerce" is the key so you will probably not be able to walk into a gun store and buy a new factory MP5 for the $900 or so retail price anytime soon but you may be able to once again manufacture your own machineguns legally provided the changes you make are substantial and you aren't using ready made parts substantially affecting interstate commerce. The ruling has been stayed pending appeal to the US supreme court. But for right now gun enthusiasts have a verdict decidedly in our favor. You can find the opinon at:

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/90B5FFB18A092A6F88256DDD000000FE/$file/0210318.pdf?openelement

There is some mention of gun kits etc in the case. That is NOT directly relevant to the machinegun issue.
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Old October 4, 2005, 05:21 AM   #42
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AKs don't fire full auto from open bolt position.... correct me if I'm wrong. josh
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Old October 4, 2005, 08:49 AM   #43
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joshua

AKs don't fire full auto from open bolt position.... correct me if I'm wrong. josh


Nope, AKs fire from the closed bolt position. No way the ATF would let them in the US if they fired from the open bolt.
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Old October 4, 2005, 12:39 PM   #44
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Crosshair, it's 0240hrs here and the way I'm reading your post it's a closed bolt. Here is my question, did M. Kalishnikov originally design it to fire full auto in the open bolt position? I've always thought open bolt would not be conducive to accuracy, plus it lets in foreign debris into the action. josh
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Old October 4, 2005, 03:53 PM   #45
too many choices!?
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Joshua,

I don't know your background with weapons but from what I see in your post here are my answers to the questions...

The AK was designed as a selective fire assualt rifle, firing the 7.62x39 cartrige(AKA-Russian short), that fires from the closed bolt position.

Most weapons that fire from an open bolt postition are usually early machine pistols(mac's and tech 9 and such), but the true value of open bolt guns is not really reached until you get to true machine guns(ie belt feds, and disintergrating belt linked ammo), like 1919 and M2.

You are correct that the open bolt guns allow debris into the action, but they also cool faster and keep the ammo held in the Magazine or the bel, until the trigger is pulled. This helps prevent ,"cook offs", from sustained fire and heat build up in the chamber.

The true open bolt Machine guns, are less accurate than a closed bolt semi auto, but then again with,"cone of fire" and the,"beaten zone", being what they are, I doubt anybody misses the small amount of accuracy lost, and love the decrease in round,"cook-off" potential. As with everthing else, open vs. closed bolt is a trade off...Hope this helps .
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Old October 4, 2005, 04:03 PM   #46
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but the true value of open bolt guns is not really reached until you get to true machine guns(ie belt feds, and disintergrating belt linked ammo), like 1919 and M2.
Not to diminish your point about open bolt heavy and GPMGs (because it is valid), but the M2 and the 1919 fire from a closed bolt.
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Old October 4, 2005, 04:42 PM   #47
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Thanx for the clarification Shaggy, I stand corrected

I shoulda stuck with the ones I know are open bolt, like the M249 S.A.W. Is the M60 open or closed bolt?....Atleast I got the major points across correctly . Belt-feds really aren't my cup of tea, I am more of an AK/AR kinda guy ...
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Old October 4, 2005, 08:05 PM   #48
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Let me see, how did that block of instruction go...

"This is an M60. It is fully automatic 7.62 mm, air-cooled, belt-fed, gas-operated weapon that fires from the open bolt position. It has a maximum effective range of 1100 meters and and sustained rate of fire of 200 rounds per minute...." etc, etc.

Open bolt. I KNEW there was a reason I had to memorize that.
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Old October 5, 2005, 09:18 AM   #49
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I'm an AK/AR kind of guy too, but no class III yet. I know I'd learn something here. josh
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Old October 5, 2005, 11:35 AM   #50
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have ideas to on how to make weapons fully automatic but with the laws and hassle of not being able to use a weapon that is fullauto around people just gives me incinticve to practice pulling that trigger as fast as you can. P.S. you might want to buy a 22lr rifle and practice making it full auto. that is what I am going to do one of these days. after I know that I can do it I will just put it back to factory and just know that I can.
Uh, yeah. Right.

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