Range failure. - Page 2

2123 · February 23, 2017, 11:22 PM

I don't use public ranges.

b.thomas · February 24, 2017, 03:13 AM

A range setup like that is just an accident waiting to happen!
Regardless of how careful the shooters are.................
I don't really see how they could even get away with a setup like that in the first place...................makes no sense??

thallub · February 24, 2017, 09:14 AM

The incident took place at the Fort Crowder conservation area shooting range:

http://www.neoshodailynews.com/news/...identally-shot

The range is unsupervised.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fort-...94841893880186

Yep, the man was fondling his gun while someone was down range.

T. O'Heir · February 24, 2017, 12:36 PM

The owner of the range is liable for having allowed people to shoot forward of the rest of the shooters. And not having an RO. It has nothing to do with the range design.
Suggesting a guy isn't competent due to his age is absolute nonsense. Trump is the ripe old age of 70. snicker.

tedbeau · March 7, 2017, 12:50 PM

I think there is enough blame here to go around. The design of the range and the rules that allow shooters to use the same range at different distances sounds entirely ridiculous.
It's hard to tell from the story if the guy that was shot was there first, knew the other guy was behind him, and if guy with the ND walked back to the 25 yard line to work on his gun or had been shooting from that distance.
It also sounds to me based on the statement by the police news conference quote as if the shooter was unfamiliar with the gun. This would not be the first time I have seen a new gun owner that was not aware that just removing a magazine does NOT unload a semi-auto. The story says the gun went off when the slide went forward, but I would bet the shooter also had a finger on the trigger. It's possible it was a gun malfunction, but I'd bet it was bad finger discipline combined with bad muzzle awareness.
The victim may be partially to blame also, again depending on how/when he managed to get himself downrange of a gun with a round in the barrel.
My gun club has a 300 yard rifle range that also has benches at 200, 100 and 50 yards. There is no way any of us would consider shooting the longer ranges if someone in on the shorter range. You keep you gun in you case/ preferably in your vehicle and wait for the other people to clear out before you setup at your distance.

roarshock · March 13, 2017, 01:14 PM

It's surprising incidents like this aren't more common. Our range has a lengthy orientation day. Every numbered rule is read aloud, explained, then open for questions. Everyone has to initial each one on their application prior to reading the next. Big boards list the rules and signs identify the purpose and allowed uses for each range. People are slow learners or just plain stupid.

ShootistPRS · March 14, 2017, 01:28 PM

The range I use is a private club but we do open to the public for special events. Those event make use of our range safety officers and instructors. Normally there are no range safety officers on duty for members. We require members to go through orientation before they can use the range. Some people don't remember what they are taught so we have the rules posted on a 4x4 foot board and copies of the rules in cases for members to keep.

The range has an archery range, a knife and hawk throwing range, black powder muzzle loading range, seven dedicated pistol bays 30 feet wide, a small bore and action range, a rifle range with back drops at 25, 50, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 600 yards and a five stand range. All of the ranges but the pistol ranges have a dedicated firing line. The pistol bays are set up so you can fire at ranges of 7 to 30 yards. There are bullet stops between each bay so it is safer to be down range when someone in the next bay is firing.

If there were no separations between the pistol bays, or when more than one person using the bays there are portable target stands that can be placed nearer the shooter if they want to shoot closer than the other person. We use a three flag system to control the firing line. a black flag signifies the range is closed. Guns may not be brought from a vehicle to the firing line but they can be moved from the firing line to a vehicle. A yellow flag signifies there are people down range and no gun is to be handled or transported so long as the yellow flag is up, not even in a case from a vehicle to the firing line. When the red flag is up the range is hot and guns can be transported and handled.

jackstrawIII · March 23, 2017, 11:21 AM

Blame also lies with the guy who got shot. May sound insensitive, but it's true.

I would NEVER NEVER NEVER go stand in front of someone else with a gun in their hand. Ever. Ever. Ever. Even if it was unloaded etc. Heck no.

Sad story, but we're responsible to keep ourselves out of harms way. Seems like there are several responsible people here.

February 23, 2017, 11:22 PM	#26
2123 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2014 Location: It changes.....a lot. Posts: 356	I don't use public ranges. __________________ Airborne Rangers Lead The Way.

February 24, 2017, 12:36 PM	#29
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	The owner of the range is liable for having allowed people to shoot forward of the rest of the shooters. And not having an RO. It has nothing to do with the range design. Suggesting a guy isn't competent due to his age is absolute nonsense. Trump is the ripe old age of 70. snicker. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

March 23, 2017, 11:21 AM	#33
jackstrawIII Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2016 Location: Upstate NY. Posts: 901	Blame also lies with the guy who got shot. May sound insensitive, but it's true. I would NEVER NEVER NEVER go stand in front of someone else with a gun in their hand. Ever. Ever. Ever. Even if it was unloaded etc. Heck no. Sad story, but we're responsible to keep ourselves out of harms way. Seems like there are several responsible people here. __________________ In God we trust.

February 24, 2017, 03:13 AM	#27
b.thomas Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Posts: 461	A range setup like that is just an accident waiting to happen! Regardless of how careful the shooters are................. I don't really see how they could even get away with a setup like that in the first place...................makes no sense??

February 24, 2017, 09:14 AM	#28
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	The incident took place at the Fort Crowder conservation area shooting range: http://www.neoshodailynews.com/news/...identally-shot The range is unsupervised. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fort-...94841893880186 Yep, the man was fondling his gun while someone was down range.

March 7, 2017, 12:50 PM	#30
tedbeau Member Join Date: March 17, 2015 Posts: 54	I think there is enough blame here to go around. The design of the range and the rules that allow shooters to use the same range at different distances sounds entirely ridiculous. It's hard to tell from the story if the guy that was shot was there first, knew the other guy was behind him, and if guy with the ND walked back to the 25 yard line to work on his gun or had been shooting from that distance. It also sounds to me based on the statement by the police news conference quote as if the shooter was unfamiliar with the gun. This would not be the first time I have seen a new gun owner that was not aware that just removing a magazine does NOT unload a semi-auto. The story says the gun went off when the slide went forward, but I would bet the shooter also had a finger on the trigger. It's possible it was a gun malfunction, but I'd bet it was bad finger discipline combined with bad muzzle awareness. The victim may be partially to blame also, again depending on how/when he managed to get himself downrange of a gun with a round in the barrel. My gun club has a 300 yard rifle range that also has benches at 200, 100 and 50 yards. There is no way any of us would consider shooting the longer ranges if someone in on the shorter range. You keep you gun in you case/ preferably in your vehicle and wait for the other people to clear out before you setup at your distance.

March 13, 2017, 01:14 PM	#31
roarshock Member Join Date: January 18, 2017 Posts: 52	It's surprising incidents like this aren't more common. Our range has a lengthy orientation day. Every numbered rule is read aloud, explained, then open for questions. Everyone has to initial each one on their application prior to reading the next. Big boards list the rules and signs identify the purpose and allowed uses for each range. People are slow learners or just plain stupid.

March 14, 2017, 01:28 PM	#32
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	The range I use is a private club but we do open to the public for special events. Those event make use of our range safety officers and instructors. Normally there are no range safety officers on duty for members. We require members to go through orientation before they can use the range. Some people don't remember what they are taught so we have the rules posted on a 4x4 foot board and copies of the rules in cases for members to keep. The range has an archery range, a knife and hawk throwing range, black powder muzzle loading range, seven dedicated pistol bays 30 feet wide, a small bore and action range, a rifle range with back drops at 25, 50, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 600 yards and a five stand range. All of the ranges but the pistol ranges have a dedicated firing line. The pistol bays are set up so you can fire at ranges of 7 to 30 yards. There are bullet stops between each bay so it is safer to be down range when someone in the next bay is firing. If there were no separations between the pistol bays, or when more than one person using the bays there are portable target stands that can be placed nearer the shooter if they want to shoot closer than the other person. We use a three flag system to control the firing line. a black flag signifies the range is closed. Guns may not be brought from a vehicle to the firing line but they can be moved from the firing line to a vehicle. A yellow flag signifies there are people down range and no gun is to be handled or transported so long as the yellow flag is up, not even in a case from a vehicle to the firing line. When the red flag is up the range is hot and guns can be transported and handled.