It happened again.

[JKP]

A few months ago, I posted (I think on this forum), that I found some 9mm Win brass on the range with crimped primers. My last trip to the range, I found nickle plated Win 9mm brass with crimped primers. To top it off, the primers were not plated, just brass, so they looked like reloads. I deprimed them (felt like crimped) and checked with my primer pocket guage.
They were definitely crimped. Anyone see this before?

[RoyceP]

Yes for some reason there are some ammo loaders that do that. You can buy one of these to fix it: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012920663/

[JKP]

Thanks, RoyceP. I can get the crimp out fine, I judt wonder why anyone would bother reloading the brass and then crimping the primer. One of those mysteries of life!

[Jim Watson]

Brass primer in nickel case from factory, si.
Reloader crimping primer, no.

[44 AMP]

9mm Win brass

To be clear, you found some 9mm Luger brass (9x19, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm Nato etc) with a WIN headstamp, not 9mm Win mag brass, right??

[Marco Califo]

I just finished wet tumbling and depriming 5,000 WCC 97 Ꚛ. Yes, they are crimped. They came off a US military base (USGI 9mm). Given the predominance of 9mm in US Agencies, I think crimped primers are not only not surprising, but to be expected. It is quite possible that your brass was made on the same or equivalent equipment. Winchester is the current operator of the Lake City Army Ammunition plant, and am sure Winchester fulfills many government agency ammunition contracts.
Nickel plating is preferred for many carry applications (LEO, game wardens, etc.) as they resist corrosion from handling.
I do know the 40 SW is a better cartridge in many ways and has largely captured the LEO market.

the primers were not plated, just brass, so they looked like reloads.

I hear this old wive's tale occasionally, but never with any proof.
Whether primers are silver or yellow means less than Tarot Cards, Magic 8-Ball, and Tea Leaves.
Any primer maker can use and change colors for no reason. It has never proved anything.

[44 AMP]

the primers were not plated, just brass, so they looked like reloads.

Judging reloads from the color of the primer is something that varies with the maker, and the TIME the ammo was made. Today I have no idea who uses what but everything I've seen in years has been silver (nickel). However, I also haven't used Rem primers in decades, either...

Back in the 70s, pre-internet, and well before there was such a thing as USGI 9mm Luger ammo. Back in those days, Win, Rem, CCI, and Federal primers pistol primers were all "silver" and so were the rifles primers, except for Remington. Remington rifle primers were brass colored. And that's what the factory used. Remington brass with silver colored primers was a clear reload.

But that was then, and this is now, and the only sure thing these days is that reloaders, (people reloading for themselves, not for govt contracts,) don't "recrimp" primers into the reloaded brass.

GI (ball) ammo is made with crimped primers and sealant to meet GI requirements. This ammo, made this way for govt use may be sold to anyone, eventually, including depts of the Fed that do not have crimped and sealed requirements. They get the same stuff the GI contracts get, changing the mfg process to omit crimping and sealing would almost certainly cost more.

Seems like leaving off the "extra" steps would be cheaper, but that isn't always the case. I worked for a govt subcontractor at a govt facility, and we had "fleet" vehicles. Mostly pickups, but a few cars, all painted govt gray, no A/C, and AM only radios (if any). They had been ordering them that way since the 50s. In the 90s, "civilian" trucks (and some jeeps) began showing up. Painted in ordinary colors, red, blue, black, white, etc) with A/C and AM/FM radios and some had AM/FM radio cassette players.

Seems like some bright fellow actually did some research, and discovered that the "govt gray" rigs, without AC or radios. or only AM radios actually cost the govt several thousand dollars MORE, per unit than just buying and using commercial rigs.

You'd think they would have been cheaper, without the extras, (AC & radio) but they weren't, they were actually MORE expensive!!!

Because, the manufacturers didn't "screw up" the assy lines to make vehicles meeting the govt contract specs. They took finished vehicles and altered them, by removing the A/C and changing out the radios, and then repainted them to govt gray, and, of course, charged for the "extra" work needed!!

SO, as a "cost saving measure", the govt dropped their "cheap" contract and just bought straight civilian rigs. (then had out sign painters stencil on the required govt labels and numbers).

So, finding 9mm ammo made to meet USGI specs (crimped primers and all)
is possible about anywhere...

[Unclenick]

Several causes. First, I'll confirm the brass primer color means nothing. Winchester has made both nickel-plated and plain brass primers in the past. The military primers used by Lake City are a plain brass color. Some Remington primers I have are copper-color, though whether it is hard copper or red (5% zinc) brass, I don't know. Most other primers sold to handloaders (Federal and CCI, in particular) are nickel-plated primers, and you find those in handloads commonly. So you can get handloads and factory-loaded ammo in both flavors.

A reason for crimping civilian primers is to use the DDNP-sensitized "green" primers that have no lead compounds in them. DDNP has a higher brisance than the lead styphnate in conventional primers, which means it can back the primer out more forcibly during firing, and a crimp will help prevent that. Indeed, the reason military primers are crimped is to prevent them from backing out and dropping a spent primer down into the gun, something that had caused the jamming of machine guns during WWI. The change to a crimped primer was made during the late 1920s or early 1930s to prevent that. I know John C. Garand's first semi-automatic rifle design was activated by the primer backing out, and he had to drop that mechanism after the change to crimped primers, and so he had to work out the gas mechanisms that ultimately resulted in the M1 Garand rifle. Hatcher's Book of the Garand probably has at least the approximate dates.

[Metal god]

Marco , yeah I have some 9mm WCC 11 & 12 that are crimped , they both clearly show the crimp circle stamp/print on them . The interesting thing is the 11’s did not need the crimp removed . They pass the gauge and prime just fine but the 12’s needed every single case swaged . Don’t know what that’s about but was nice not needing to swage the 1k WCC-11’s .

[gwpercle]

For some reason ... non-toxic , aka "green" primers , heavy-metals free , are crimped in place .
These primers are good for indoor ranges , they are lead-free and discharge no hazardous materials into the air to be breathed . That's good , but they work at higher pressure because the flash hole has to be larger ... larger flash hole lets mor pressure push the primers out ... pistol hangs up ... Soooo ... the primers get crimped in place to hold them there .
Now if you reload them with standard primers , the flash hole will be larger ... so watch your loads for protruding primers !
What a revolting development all this green primer business has turned out to be !
Gary

[Marco Califo]

MG, that is a good tip on the different years.
I use a countersink drill bit for rifle de-crimping, but for these 9mm just a quick twist with the Lyman hand-tool should work just fine.
First photo is two rows of brass. Left column is unprocessed. On the right is after processing crimp.
Second photo is the Lyman tool heads used. You can see tiny bits of brass on both.

[JKP]

Thanks 44AMP, I just assumed they were reloads because I hadn't ever seen factory nickle plated cases with non plated primers before.