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Old April 13, 2024, 06:23 PM   #1
badmatrix
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.223 primer pocket telltales?

I was rooting around for stuff to reload and it will definitely not be any .223, I have so much brass if i needed it.

While looking through this box I noticed a few cartridges with blackened primers….. interesting.
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Old April 13, 2024, 09:44 PM   #2
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The blackening is usually caused by gas leakage because the primer cup is not sealing properly against the pocket.

A common, but not the only possible cause is the primer pocket has expanded too much.
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Old April 13, 2024, 10:57 PM   #3
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Some of those primers cracked. The gas escaping will erode the bolt face.
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Old April 14, 2024, 03:21 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
The blackening is usually caused by gas leakage because the primer cup is not sealing properly against the pocket.

A common, but not the only possible cause is the primer pocket has expanded too much.
Yes!
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Old April 14, 2024, 03:22 AM   #5
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Some of those primers cracked. The gas escaping will erode the bolt face.
I noticed that. Why would the primers crack?
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Old April 14, 2024, 07:14 AM   #6
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I was going to ask if you know what brand those cracked primers are. Winchester had a problem for a while with their non-nickel-plated primers cracking and leaking because the brass cups were too thin, though they fixed that. I don't see any sign of excessive flattening on those cracked primers (nice rounded shoulder), and that suggests either that the crack started at the side due to a gas leak (you'll see when you decap them if it goes all the way to the lip of the cup) or that the brass in the cracked cups was overworked. As brass work hardens, the percent of length it can stretch before it breaks gets smaller and smaller. The firing pin can supply the final hardening blow, so excessive firing pin protrusion is another thing to double-check for.
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Old April 14, 2024, 07:44 AM   #7
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I was going to ask if you know what brand those cracked primers are. Winchester had a problem for a while with their non-nickel-plated primers cracking and leaking because the brass cups were too thin, though they fixed that. I don't see any sign of excessive flattening on those cracked primers (nice rounded shoulder), and that suggests either that the crack started at the side due to a gas leak (you'll see when you decap them if it goes all the way to the lip of the cup) or that the brass in the cracked cups was overworked. As brass work hardens, the percent of length it can stretch before it breaks gets smaller and smaller. The firing pin can supply the final hardening blow, so excessive firing pin protrusion is another thing to double-check for.
I will have to go back in the reloading log and see what was loaded and what firearm. They are either federal bench primers or Ginex.
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Old April 14, 2024, 07:56 AM   #8
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This may be a stupid question--but were you maybe forcing the primer into a case with a military crimp on the primer without using a swager/reamer first?
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Old April 14, 2024, 01:08 PM   #9
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Oh, good thought! Most of those cases, including the cracked primer culprits, appear to have a ring crimp indentation. We all know some of those turn out tighter than others.
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Old April 14, 2024, 02:39 PM   #10
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It looks like those crimped pockets have been reamed.
Might be rough tool marks.
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Old April 14, 2024, 03:16 PM   #11
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Your brass is mixed headstamps. There are many possible variations. Since the brass is not homogenous, I do not think you will be able to reach a conclusion.
I suggest that you obtain better brass, all the same headstamp. Starline is very good and inexpensive. Lake City once fired is very good. I have 500 new LC, which are sometimes available from the LC operator.
Www.starlinebrass.com
Www.Gibrass.com
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Old April 14, 2024, 03:50 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by stagpanther View Post
This may be a stupid question--but were you maybe forcing the primer into a case with a military crimp on the primer without using a swager/reamer first?
Hahahaha…i would like to see the same outcome: of course not.
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Old April 15, 2024, 05:03 AM   #13
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Did you perhaps accidentally load some with Small Pistol Primers?
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Old April 15, 2024, 12:30 PM   #14
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Hahahaha…i would like to see the same outcome: of course not.
Sorry--didn't mean to imply you made a silly mistake. I may be imagining things--but it looks like on a few of the spent cases that did not leak/crack there is an impression on primer that looks similar to the ones that failed.
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Old April 15, 2024, 03:59 PM   #15
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Hahahaha…i would like to see the same outcome: of course not.
I've done it by mistake once. I had a bin of yet-to-be swaged cases sitting too near my press, and started picking them up and priming them. Several primed pretty normally, but then one showed up that wouldn't prime, and that's what clued me in that I was doing something wrong. I've not seen large rifle primers slip into an unswaged pocket that easily, but these 223's certainly did.
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Old April 15, 2024, 04:28 PM   #16
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Unclenick; i have poked primers in 556 just to see if it could be done. like you said, some go just fine and some just flat balk! you can crush them flat and they still wont go.

but i was wondering why those cases look so rough? is that just the way the picture was taken or is the bolt face rough as a cob? and if the bolt face is rough that might affect primers too...
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Old April 15, 2024, 06:07 PM   #17
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Your mixed headstamps are why the Primer Pockets vary.
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Old April 15, 2024, 11:59 PM   #18
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Am I the only one who not only sees mixed headstamp, but also mixed primers?
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Old April 16, 2024, 12:13 AM   #19
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I did’t notice that!
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Old April 16, 2024, 05:00 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_C_S View Post
Am I the only one who not only sees mixed headstamp, but also mixed primers?
I noticed as well, and the only ones cracked are the silver colored version which is why I thought possibly mixed in some SPP’s by mistake.
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Old April 16, 2024, 07:26 AM   #21
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The silver ones i think could be GINEX
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Old April 16, 2024, 01:06 PM   #22
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some times i pick up once fired range brass, and have just examined several of them with the same head stampS as those in the photo, none are that rough. what's up with that. those look like the bolt face has a peace of sand paper glued to it... is that just me ?
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Old April 16, 2024, 01:12 PM   #23
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look closely at an ungassed primer

zoom in on the next to the bottom left primer. the bolt face has issues.
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Old April 16, 2024, 09:10 PM   #24
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Looks like fairly normal case heads to me, other than the little linear ding in each one.
I think you are all using too much imagination.
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