Lee die question

grumpa72 · October 31, 2009, 03:33 PM

Thought I had posted this a little earlier but I must have screwed up somewhere.

Anyhow, I have spent the last several hours searching the forums for answers to my questions to no avail. So please bear with me.

I have been reloading pistol, 9mm and .45 acp, for about a year now and want to branch out into .223 for my new Colt LE6920. I expect to load about 1000 rounds per year. I am using a Lee Classic Cast Turret setup and will probably be buying Lee dies for the .223. When I bought my Lee Deluxe 4 Die set (carbide), it included everything I needed to load pistol brass. Recognizing that rifle brass takes a lot more case preparation than pistol, I want to get this straightened out. All I see on the Lee web site is the Lee Deluxe Rifle Die Set, http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...-dlxrifle.html. No mention of carbide versus steel or how many peices in the die set. Is this what I need to install in my four hole turret? Any other pieces? Of course, the basic items for case trimmming, and prep are being ordered.

Next question - Lee offers the Decapping Die "for those who clean cases before reloading". http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...g/casecon.html I always clean cases before reloading but in pistol, I never deprime before cleaning. Is this different in rifle and is this tool required?

Any comments or suggestions?

Thank you in advance.

Sevens · October 31, 2009, 04:27 PM

You won't find "carbide" dies for bottle neck rifle rounds -- they don't make them. In straight walled cases (most typical of handguns, but some rifle rounds) carbide die 'sets' are really just a carbide steel sizing die and 2 or 3 other regular dies.

Carbide sizing dies allow you to resize straight wall cases without the use of lube. When full length sizing rifle brass, you must use lube or you will stick a case in the die.

At the minimum, you can get by with a regular 2-die set for loading .223 ammo for your Colt rifle. One die is the FL or full length sizing die. The other die seats the bullet and also gives a roll crimp if you desire.

I, personally, would not ever deprime brass before tumbling it. I have found that no amount of tumbling will ever clean the primer pocket anyway... and tumbling brass with the primers removed only results in primer pockets with media stuck in the flash holes. Media stuck in the flash holes can give REAL grief with decapping rods, re-priming and lord only knows if a good size chunk sits in the flash hole of a loaded round and you pull the trigger.

The only other thing you absolutely need at this point is a way to measure your brass for length and trim when necessary. The cheapest way to accomplish this is the Lee cuttter and lock stud, shellholder, system. A couple bucks. Slow, tedious, not precise and also not flexible, but works DARN well and is mere pennies on the dollar compared to every other trimming method out there.

Trimming your rifle brass for length is a critical part of loading bottle neck rifle ammo, so don't skip over this step.

Alleykat · October 31, 2009, 05:28 PM

If by "they", Seven means Lee, then that's correct, they don't make carbide .223 dies. However, Dillon does. I use plain ol' Lee steel dies for rifle reloading...sometimes the RCBS X die, when loading .223 in bulk.

Shoney · October 31, 2009, 05:36 PM

Sevens post is correct. The why you don't use a neck sizing die on your weapon's ammo is important to understand.

Auto/semi-auto chambers of rifles require full length sized ammo in order to function flawlessly. There are rare weapons the require "small base dies" which size the case closer to the base, enabling them to function in tight chambers.

When using bolt weapons, the neck sizing dies will perform fairly close to Lee's advertising claims. Again for bolt weapons you can use a FL sizing die on cases fired in that specific weapon. You adjust the FL die down , until it just compleats the sizing of the neck and touches the shoulder, and in effect have neck sized the case.

grumpa72 · October 31, 2009, 06:56 PM

Thank you all for your comments. As I read what you have written, then the following setup should be good to go? http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...ies-rifle.html

It seems that I will also need the Lee Rifle Charging die with the Auto-Disk Powder Measure and the dual disk kit in order to autmatically meter powder.

Final question, more than 25 years ago, I "helped" a friend load up some .300 Win Mag for hunting in Alaska and he used a trickle device to accurately and exactly meter powder into each case. For plinking, does the Lee Auto-Disk work accurately enough when using the dual disk kit?

Thank you again.

rwilson452 · October 31, 2009, 07:19 PM

It depends on the powder your using. Ball powders measure very well, excruded powders not so well. good enough to plinking rounds. If your going to be doing some long range competition your going to go back to trickle charging.

Quote:

Final question, more than 25 years ago, I "helped" a friend load up some .300 Win Mag for hunting in Alaska and he used a trickle device to accurately and exactly meter powder into each case. For plinking, does the Lee Auto-Disk work accurately enough when using the dual disk kit?

Thank you again.

FM12 · October 31, 2009, 07:24 PM

Even if you buy the Dillon Carbide sizer, you still have to lube or get stuck cases. Bummer! I HATE sizeing rifle cases.

Uncle H · October 31, 2009, 10:12 PM

Contrary to other methods & opinions, I usually de-prime first on a universal decapping die. I next re-size, brush or "uniform" the primer pocket, tumble (to remove the lube/shine) then reload.

Yes some media can get into the primer holes but it's easy to pop out with an ice pick when inspecting cases prior to priming.

Basically, I do all case prep (chamfer/deburr/trim as necessary) prior to tumbling.

Dunno if that saves me any time or not. Most of those steps need to be done at some point anyway.

grumpa72 · November 1, 2009, 09:07 AM

Thank you all for your comments.

Final question: In your opinion, assuming that I am sticking with Lee, is the Lee PaceSetter Die set adequate since it has the full length resizer/deprimer (not sure but I see a depriming pin on the sizer), bullet seater/crimper, and factory crimp die? They also sell the deluxe which includes the neck sizer and the comments that I read on this forum say that the full length resizer is what I need for an AR platform. So that makes the neck sizer a paperweight?

This should be my fall project and net me about 1000 .223 55 fmjbt rounds.

Again, I appreciate your comments and opinions.

rwilson452 · November 1, 2009, 09:25 AM

The PaceSetter dies are the same dies that come in the deluxe set less the collet die. The RGB die set only has the sizing die and the bullet seating die. no shell holder or dipper, just the two dies. If your loading for for an AR it is suggested you full length resize and not neck size. The deluxe set give you a die you won't be using. Lee doesn't make different quality dies. They just package them differently. As I have plenty of shell holders etc. I usually buy the RGB set for a new caliber.

ADD: I think the pacesetter set comes with a crimp die that doesn't come with the deluxe set. Something you may find valuable when loading for your AR.

Quote:

Thank you all for your comments.

Final question: In your opinion, assuming that I am sticking with Lee, is the Lee PaceSetter Die set adequate since it has the full length resizer/deprimer (not sure but I see a depriming pin on the sizer), bullet seater/crimper, and factory crimp die? They also sell the deluxe which includes the neck sizer and the comments that I read on this forum say that the full length resizer is what I need for an AR platform. So that makes the neck sizer a paperweight?

This should be my fall project and net me about 1000 .223 55 fmjbt rounds.

Again, I appreciate your comments and opinions.

PCJim · November 1, 2009, 09:30 AM

Grumpa, you are correct in that the FL die both resizes and deprimes, and a neck sizer die would be a paperweight as regards the AR platform.

You'll be able to produce many more than just 1K of ammo once set up with your equipment.

Welcome to reloading.

grumpa72 · November 2, 2009, 07:37 AM

Thank you for all of your commments. Ordering parts and components will start today.

October 31, 2009, 03:33 PM	#1
grumpa72 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 487	Lee die question Thought I had posted this a little earlier but I must have screwed up somewhere. Anyhow, I have spent the last several hours searching the forums for answers to my questions to no avail. So please bear with me. I have been reloading pistol, 9mm and .45 acp, for about a year now and want to branch out into .223 for my new Colt LE6920. I expect to load about 1000 rounds per year. I am using a Lee Classic Cast Turret setup and will probably be buying Lee dies for the .223. When I bought my Lee Deluxe 4 Die set (carbide), it included everything I needed to load pistol brass. Recognizing that rifle brass takes a lot more case preparation than pistol, I want to get this straightened out. All I see on the Lee web site is the Lee Deluxe Rifle Die Set, http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...-dlxrifle.html. No mention of carbide versus steel or how many peices in the die set. Is this what I need to install in my four hole turret? Any other pieces? Of course, the basic items for case trimmming, and prep are being ordered. Next question - Lee offers the Decapping Die "for those who clean cases before reloading". http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...g/casecon.html I always clean cases before reloading but in pistol, I never deprime before cleaning. Is this different in rifle and is this tool required? Any comments or suggestions? Thank you in advance.

October 31, 2009, 04:27 PM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	You won't find "carbide" dies for bottle neck rifle rounds -- they don't make them. In straight walled cases (most typical of handguns, but some rifle rounds) carbide die 'sets' are really just a carbide steel sizing die and 2 or 3 other regular dies. Carbide sizing dies allow you to resize straight wall cases without the use of lube. When full length sizing rifle brass, you must use lube or you will stick a case in the die. At the minimum, you can get by with a regular 2-die set for loading .223 ammo for your Colt rifle. One die is the FL or full length sizing die. The other die seats the bullet and also gives a roll crimp if you desire. I, personally, would not ever deprime brass before tumbling it. I have found that no amount of tumbling will ever clean the primer pocket anyway... and tumbling brass with the primers removed only results in primer pockets with media stuck in the flash holes. Media stuck in the flash holes can give REAL grief with decapping rods, re-priming and lord only knows if a good size chunk sits in the flash hole of a loaded round and you pull the trigger. The only other thing you absolutely need at this point is a way to measure your brass for length and trim when necessary. The cheapest way to accomplish this is the Lee cuttter and lock stud, shellholder, system. A couple bucks. Slow, tedious, not precise and also not flexible, but works DARN well and is mere pennies on the dollar compared to every other trimming method out there. Trimming your rifle brass for length is a critical part of loading bottle neck rifle ammo, so don't skip over this step. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

October 31, 2009, 05:36 PM	#4
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Sevens post is correct. The why you don't use a neck sizing die on your weapon's ammo is important to understand. Auto/semi-auto chambers of rifles require full length sized ammo in order to function flawlessly. There are rare weapons the require "small base dies" which size the case closer to the base, enabling them to function in tight chambers. When using bolt weapons, the neck sizing dies will perform fairly close to Lee's advertising claims. Again for bolt weapons you can use a FL sizing die on cases fired in that specific weapon. You adjust the FL die down , until it just compleats the sizing of the neck and touches the shoulder, and in effect have neck sized the case. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

October 31, 2009, 05:28 PM	#3
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	If by "they", Seven means Lee, then that's correct, they don't make carbide .223 dies. However, Dillon does. I use plain ol' Lee steel dies for rifle reloading...sometimes the RCBS X die, when loading .223 in bulk.

October 31, 2009, 06:56 PM	#5
grumpa72 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 487	Thank you all for your comments. As I read what you have written, then the following setup should be good to go? http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...ies-rifle.html It seems that I will also need the Lee Rifle Charging die with the Auto-Disk Powder Measure and the dual disk kit in order to autmatically meter powder. Final question, more than 25 years ago, I "helped" a friend load up some .300 Win Mag for hunting in Alaska and he used a trickle device to accurately and exactly meter powder into each case. For plinking, does the Lee Auto-Disk work accurately enough when using the dual disk kit? Thank you again.

October 31, 2009, 07:24 PM	#7
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	Even if you buy the Dillon Carbide sizer, you still have to lube or get stuck cases. Bummer! I HATE sizeing rifle cases.

October 31, 2009, 10:12 PM	#8
Uncle H Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Bristol, TN Posts: 102	Contrary to other methods & opinions, I usually de-prime first on a universal decapping die. I next re-size, brush or "uniform" the primer pocket, tumble (to remove the lube/shine) then reload. Yes some media can get into the primer holes but it's easy to pop out with an ice pick when inspecting cases prior to priming. Basically, I do all case prep (chamfer/deburr/trim as necessary) prior to tumbling. Dunno if that saves me any time or not. Most of those steps need to be done at some point anyway.

November 1, 2009, 09:07 AM	#9
grumpa72 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 487	Thank you all for your comments. Final question: In your opinion, assuming that I am sticking with Lee, is the Lee PaceSetter Die set adequate since it has the full length resizer/deprimer (not sure but I see a depriming pin on the sizer), bullet seater/crimper, and factory crimp die? They also sell the deluxe which includes the neck sizer and the comments that I read on this forum say that the full length resizer is what I need for an AR platform. So that makes the neck sizer a paperweight? This should be my fall project and net me about 1000 .223 55 fmjbt rounds. Again, I appreciate your comments and opinions.

November 1, 2009, 09:30 AM	#11
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	Grumpa, you are correct in that the FL die both resizes and deprimes, and a neck sizer die would be a paperweight as regards the AR platform. You'll be able to produce many more than just 1K of ammo once set up with your equipment. Welcome to reloading.

November 2, 2009, 07:37 AM	#12
grumpa72 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 487	Thank you for all of your commments. Ordering parts and components will start today.